I'm Not O.KK

Ruff Ruff it’s Animal Therapy

• Kelly Kranz & Kimberly Jahns • Episode 17

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Ever wondered how dogs became essential in therapy? We dive into the history of animal therapy, tracing its roots back to Sigmund Freud's chow chow, Jofi.

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Speaker 1:

Hello, welcome to. I'm Not Okay Kay, yep.

Speaker 2:

I hope you're doing okay today. I'm Kimberly and I'm Kelly. Oh yeah, that's me. I didn't know you were going to go with the. That's Kelly, like that's, I like it. I like being introduced. You make me feel fancy. I can call you Miss Kelly, no, no, I feel like I'm a substitute teacher.

Speaker 1:

No, that'd be Miss Crayons.

Speaker 2:

That's so cute, you should be a kindergarten teacher, miss. Crayons They'd all call me Crayons.

Speaker 1:

They'd be able to pronounce my last name because of Crayons. Yeah, that would be cute. So you should start looking into a job as a kindergarten teacher. Mm-hmm, yeah, that would be cute. So you should start looking into a job as a kindergarten teacher. Yes, well, I think you'd be a great kindergarten teacher, and I'm not just saying that because you have a little stitch on your headphones, or basically, what is a child's backpack in the background. You know, I don't judge, but I also judge, so.

Speaker 2:

So here we are I'm an adult with the spirit of a child, I would probably make a good. I don't know, I don't want to teach like, I just want to like, probably be like with the kids. Yeah, I just want to fucking play like they have the coolest toys, like they're just, they're so cool, yeah, and then when you get older, you can't have toys stupid, I do. Are you kidding me? I guess you can. Yeah, you kidding me?

Speaker 1:

Well, I guess you can, yeah, you, you. You do Legos, yeah, oh girl, you can have so. But when you become an adult, it goes from toys to collectibles.

Speaker 2:

That's like yeah, that's true, you call them collectibles, but they're still like toys.

Speaker 1:

It's like here's like this is an investment, this is insured. You know, that's how that works. Yeah, let's get into it. Kelly, how did your two degrees go? This past week you said you wanted to sit with your emotions for 90 seconds because of you know the book and sitting with the emotions. How did that go?

Speaker 2:

no, that shit didn't work, it didn't work you're calling the book a liar?

Speaker 2:

no, the book's not a liar, it's just I, I wasn't able to do it. Like I, I couldn't, I couldn't sit and with the emotions like I've, like I, I told you before. You know, we, we got on this podcast. I've thrown like five tantrums in the past two days, like there is, there is, yeah, no, that's not gonna happen anytime. I'm not in the place for that. So definitely, I mean, well, I guess what I did do, which isn't it was a big pivot, it's a big, it's a big deal. It wasn't a two degrees I was planning on, but it's a two degrees I guess I happen is I found a therapist that specializes in mood disorders and DBT therapies. Therapist that specializes in mood disorders and dbt therapies. That's huge and I like reached out to her and made an appointment. So yeah, that's. I've never worked with somebody that actually like is versed, oh, and she does, and she's trauma. So she's trauma like mood disorders, but I think it's like specifically bipolar, but yeah, so I'm excited for it. Yeah, we'll see how that goes wow, that's.

Speaker 1:

That's more than two degrees, I'd say. I feel like finding a therapist is not easy and it and then actually like signing up for an appointment and having to go.

Speaker 2:

It's like so much work just mentally just yeah, it's just the fact, just like looking for one is just it's hard when you're, when you're like down and out or depressed, you know whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so is that? What are your? What's your next two degrees? So if that was your two degrees, you did.

Speaker 2:

I want to. I don't know how are you building on that? It needs to be something little like. It needs to be like something really little that I could achieve. So it needs to be something little. It needs to be something really little that I could achieve.

Speaker 1:

So I don't know, come back to me. What's yours. No, come back to you. There's two of us. No, figure it out.

Speaker 2:

No, go to the next person, john. John. What's your two degrees?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, really, john, let me get my dog in here. He needs his two degrees. I guess I can do mine. So, eating a vegetable every day, that lasted for two days, which is embarrassing to admit, because, unless you count a potato as a vegetable which I don't know I eat a lot of potatoes. I am Irish, so it is part of my heritage. I really wish I was Italian, because I eat a lot of pasta and I could be like oh, this is my heritage, but it is not. I am not Italian. However, I am Polish and pierogies, I eat a lot of those. Yeah, I'm.

Speaker 2:

Polish and I eat pierogies. Well, that's my heritage Kelly. Is it actually called a pierogi?

Speaker 1:

I thought it's called pierogies, I call them a pierogi. Some people say pierogi, no, I say pierogi. Yeah, you did.

Speaker 2:

You said that out loud. Yeah, that's what I say. You said that out loud.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's what I say yeah, okay, whatever, whatever. But back to the potato. If the potato is a vegetable, then I guess I kind of did because I had a lot of potatoes. I don't think that's kind of what I meant. When I said eat a vegetable every day, I was like eat a healthy vegetable, that will do something for me. I was so proud because I made a of like baked salmon, rice and broccoli and I'm fricking, crushing it, and that lasted a day. And then the next day I had leftovers and I just threw a ton of cheese on it. I was like this needs cheese.

Speaker 1:

You threw cheese on the salmon, not on the salmon, on the rice and the broccoli.

Speaker 2:

Okay, that part makes sense.

Speaker 1:

I was like why are?

Speaker 2:

you putting cheese on fish.

Speaker 1:

But anyway. So, yeah, that didn't work too hot, so I'm going to kind of reel it back a little and my thing is going to be from Okay, thank you for that sound effect.

Speaker 2:

You're welcome.

Speaker 1:

But I'm going to do drinking a glass of water every morning, like when I start work, before I get up, like I think that's where I need to start. I can't just be like, yeah, vegetable, it's like water, yeah, yeah, that's where I have to start. So that's what I'd like to do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's easy, that's good. And it's easy now, no, and what makes it really easier, if you want, is you can fill up a glass of water and put it on your nightstand when you go to bed and then in the morning you can have it. Or like it could be in like a canteen or whatever you know. It could be in your fucking Stanley cup, but like that's something that I read in a book once. But I drink like three glasses of water before I even make my coffee. Oh wow.

Speaker 1:

That's exceptionally healthy. Oh, wow, that's yeah. I keep constantly that's healthy, though I actually I'm doing a thing where I fill my coffee cup or mug travel mug thing with water, so when I get to work I have to chug that before I drink my coffee okay, that's a fun game.

Speaker 2:

I'm tricking myself, all right, so then my two degrees will be, because we're coming back to me now, we're gonna, we're gonna do me it always comes still thinking like it's still, it's tough, I don't know, I'm just so like not in a good place right now I can't think of something that I can actually capably like do well, oh so I download the gosh.

Speaker 1:

I can't speak. I downloaded this self-care app and it was like on tough days and there were things that was just like survive the day, just be, do a breathing exercise, change clothes, brush your hair like, brush your teeth like, just like doing one of these things you know. So like, even just like brushing your hair, like that's something I had to mark down. I was like I need to start actively brushing my hair, because I never brush my hair. I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, all right, my two degrees is going to be I kind of fell out of practice of going to Pilates on a regular basis and I haven't like, honestly, since May and I hate it. And I haven't like, honestly, since May and I hate it. So I think my my two degrees should be to book a Pilates class this week so I can get back into it. I mean, I used to like load up my whole week but let's just do one day and like see how that goes. I've just had so many things that have come in the way, like I haven't had a car, what else was there? I haven't had a job, what else was there? Like vacations, like a bunch of things that um, yeah so that'll be mine.

Speaker 2:

Just you know, book a class to get back into.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's not small, but that's still great, it's wonderful, it's wonderful and.

Speaker 2:

I have one, I have, I have, I have one from an email.

Speaker 2:

Someone wrote in so so I'm just going to read. I'm going to read that real quick. We're going to give it to. It says here, I got it. Hey, okay, okay, this is Jake from Denver. The two degrees really clicks for me. I've been drowning in work stress, but this has taught me to take it slow. I started with just a five minute walk at lunch. Small step, big difference. I like that. He started with a walk and he goes small step. But anyway, back to the email. Now I'm less anxious and I feel a little bit more productive. Thanks for you know, introducing this idea to me and I'm going to take it as tackling life one bit at a time. Thanks, Jake from Denver. Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Small increments build up, they do they do Slowly, but surely.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so ding, ding, ding, ding Dimples. All right, dimples. What do you got for us today?

Speaker 1:

Okay, jumping right into my story. So I'm actually kind of excited about this. I might be all over the place because this gets me excited, and the past ones we've done have been a little more depressing. I mean, yours wasn't, but like I don't know, I wanted something more uplifting. I'm always like, oh, this thing and this terrible thing about mental health and blah, blah, blah, and I'm like like, oh, this thing and this terrible thing about mental health and blah, blah, blah, and I'm like I could use some joy today.

Speaker 1:

So mine is animal therapy and the history behind it. You would. I love my doggos. I mean I love all animals, but my doggo, oh, he's the best and his birthday is in August. So I was like Walter. This episode goes out to you. I know who you are. Shout out to Walt.

Speaker 1:

They were the first to use animals, and I guess specifically horses, which I mean I guess that makes sense to lift the spirits of the severely ill. So like the like doctors back then and then okay, so that happened. And then in the 1600s doctors used horses again to improve the physical and mental health of patients, and they're also farm animals were being used by the American Red Cross to help veterans who had an injury or illness. Like they'd help take care of the animals to help their recovery, and supposedly it helped them because like their mind was on something else besides, like the wars and the traumas. So throughout history this is kind of sort of been used. I didn't find a ton of details. I also didn't dig a ton into the history of like Greeks because I was like I'm not sure that's the same as what we're doing now. So I don't think their horses had sweaters and braided manes. So it was used in medieval Belgium as well.

Speaker 1:

This is, I guess, supposedly the first use for therapy. For therapeutic uses, humans and animals were actually rehabilitated together. In Belgian society, they say, the interaction of the humans with the animals there was like a companionship that mirrored for them, like they could each offer each other something. So this became kind of big. It became a hot topic in academia. I'm like, ooh, hot topic. And then in the 1800s Florence Nightingale, which I was like I recognize that name observed that small pets reduced the levels of anxiety and stress in her psychiatric patients. So I kind of wonder what small pets she was like. It couldn't have just been dogs, otherwise she would have sent dogs I'm picturing like rats, rats and mice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like what? Like cats, rabbits, gerbils, hamsters, and then we get to the mysies and the rats no, mysies no so yeah, just small animals helped reduce that anxiety and stress.

Speaker 1:

so then people began to, I think, actually study it and do more experiments on it, involving the animal interaction with humans and that calming effect that animals can have on patients when they're suffering from anxiety or depression. They kept experimenting with this. So an Austrian Nobel laureate in physiology and a psychologist were intrigued by this connection and they developed an idea called the human animal bond, which I feel like is self-explanatory, but it's uh. This theory just described how humans need interaction with animals and nature to normalize the busyness of daily life, which I don't know the science, but I could completely see that where it's like some people are like I just need to be outside, I need to see a bird or watch a rabbit run, I think there is just that we come from nature, where we just want to be back in nature to a certain degree.

Speaker 1:

So next up is Dr Sigmund Freud. Love him.

Speaker 2:

Tell me about my uterus, tell me about it. Well, I mean, I know that's a different podcast, but I love it so much.

Speaker 1:

So I love that a lot of these what they mentioned like oh, they use their dog, they mentioned the name too. It's just like so, dr Sigmund Freud, he used his dog in his practice. He had a chow chow named Jofi J-O-F-I. Jofi Jofi.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, j-o-f-i, jofi, jofi, yeah, go with.

Speaker 1:

Jofi, jophie, jophie, yeah, go with Jophie. So his dog would sit in on sessions. And even he saw that his dog could identify moods in his patients. So if a patient was anxious his dog would keep his distance from the patient. But if they were calm the dog would come near the patient. And Sigmund Freud says Dogs love their friends and bite their enemies, quite unlike people who are incapable of pure love and always have to mix love and hate in their object relations. So it's interesting where dogs are so in tune to emotions and things where other people aren't necessarily so jumping ahead. Modern research on AAT is in the 1960s. This is when a child psychologist, boris Levinson, phd.

Speaker 2:

I'm sorry for a second. I actually pictured a child being a psychologist. That's how it registered in my head Like a child, like yeah, like like a child being a psychologist. I was like, wow, I was like that reminds me you must be really smart, like I was actually entertaining, yeah, I a child. Being a psychologist, I was like, wow, I was like. That reminds me he must be really smart, like I was actually entertaining the thought. Yeah, I was entertaining the fucking thought I'm so Okay anyway.

Speaker 2:

I'm pretty sure he was an adult, but sure, Specialized in child therapy. Of course that's what that meant.

Speaker 1:

So he used his dog Jingles in therapy and he wrote an article called the.

Speaker 2:

Dog as a Co-Therapist. That's so great, which is so cute. This was in the 60s.

Speaker 1:

Yeah with like the dog with little glasses. Have you ever seen that picture where it's like a dog in a lab coat with like glasses and he's like I'm a dog-ter? That is so funny.

Speaker 2:

No, I've never seen that.

Speaker 1:

I'll have to show you you won't enjoy it, but anyway. So this article. He tells the story of this child who he couldn't connect with and that he noticed when his dog was there the child was more open to interaction. So how his dog helped this child open up to him. So he believed that this pet therapy could help with diagnoses from anxiety, depression, schizophrenia. And it says he was so excited by the possibilities that at the end of the article he called for the creation of a canine counseling corps for children and he said that it might elicit snickers and sneers, but then he did mention a dog corps.

Speaker 1:

Served this country heroically in the performance of military tasks in World War II, like, so why couldn't they be used as therapy dogs? So I know there was people who did make fun of him. But actually I think there were years and years later when this research was actually being validated. That's when his stuff became like, oh, he kind of started this. But originally people were like, okay, and there was like. One was like, oh, he kind of started this. But originally people were like, okay, and there was like one was like the people who made fun of him. They were like, oh, are you splitting your money with your dog. People were making fun of him because like his dog as a co-therapist yeah.

Speaker 1:

I was like I mean, I would, that'd be so cute, okay, anyway. So next up is in the 1970s, samuel Corson PhD, who also did this research. So Corson and his wife Elizabeth wrote an article in 1975 and talked about how dogs could be used in hospitals. So they did more studies for how these dogs could be used to help psychotherapists when treating people who are extremely mentally ill and in psychiatric situations or institutions. But situations so their thinking is that, like humans didn't really trust other humans and they would be more open to connect with dogs and other animals because dogs like are very nonjudgmental, have unconditional love. So by like connecting with these animals, they could then open up to their therapist. So it's like by having this connection with this dog who doesn't judge, who loves you no matter what, they could like start these conversations. So now the research on AAT has become more data-driven and evidence-based. As more research is being done, there's a positive effect on PTSD, so that's showing that. Hopefully that can help them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I've seen a lot about that. That's like the most like that I've seen, like with animal therapy is people on the autism spectrum and also veterans.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean it makes sense because it's just like, yeah, there's just so much love these animal gives and just this comforting feeling animals have.

Speaker 1:

But therapy animals are also used in inpatient treatment facilities, schools, substance abuse programs. Now they have them at some airports for people who are stressed traveling, and I guess an example of these therapy dogs at work were at Uvalde, texas. So after the tragic shooting, trained animal therapists and therapy dogs were there for, like, children, community members, law enforcement, and I guess the dogs wore like red vests to indicate their role and they just walk through the crowds and you know people would pet them and be comforted by them and it's just not that they, like you know, changed anybody's lives necessarily, but it's just that comfort of this dog that just has you know this joy and this comfort and like this dog that just has you know, this joy and this comfort and like will just be there with you. They say that dogs are the most well studied of all these species for aat because they're innately unselfish and love unconditionally, unlike cats. Let's be real, that's just my opinion.

Speaker 2:

Shut the front door. My kitty cats love me so much they try and groom me. They try and groom me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's a joke, that is the ultimate sign of love.

Speaker 2:

Sure, it is Okay. Okay, you've seen. No, you've seen my cat. I don't see Walter in your lap.

Speaker 1:

Walter is in his bed that I got him and he's taking a nice nap because he has to emotionally support me.

Speaker 2:

Who else would get him in the bed. What do like?

Speaker 1:

of course you would have got him well, my partner could have gotten him the bed you're out, my mom, maybe a stranger, I don't know, gosh anyway anyway. So there are like measurable, statistically significant findings. For you know AAT but in regards to like mixing it with other therapies, that I think is growing in popularity. So it's not just like animal assisted psychotherapy, it's like that and CBT or you know that kind of thing. So that's kind of growing. And the reason that they think therapy animals help is that these are just a few examples that petting an animal has a calming effect because you're mindful of petting. It's very much a calming, a repeated motion, so it's very meditative. They can also feel like emotionally. They like transfer their emotions from the dog onto them, them onto the dog. They just feel, like you know, comforted. Also, talking to the animal where you know they might feel comfortable talking to an animal who won't judge, whereas you know they might feel comfortable talking to an animal who won't judge, whereas you know a therapist might I talk to?

Speaker 2:

my animals all the time, like constantly. I'm just like I tell them they know so much about me. If they would understand. I think they do. I mean there's three of them, one of them has to get it Like yeah, obviously, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1:

But ultimately, like just being around animals, animals provides the warmth and the love and non-judgment that the vast majority of people just can't provide, and this connection really helps with psychotherapy and helps people receiving therapy move towards their goals because they're in a more comfortable state and they're just more open to it and, you know, they lessen that stress and anxiety. So that is my story, I'm sticking with it and I love animals. So I felt good like researching this and being like yay, animals, you know.

Speaker 2:

That was a good topic. It's a good topic for you to do. I couldn't have done it with that amount of enthusiasm, I mean. I love animals too. I mean big animal lover, cat rescues, all the way.

Speaker 1:

Animals. Okay, so let's jump into the book Kelly. So this is Unfuck your Brain by Faith G Harper, phd. We're on chapter four. Getting Better, retrain your brain. This chapter was 30 fucking pages.

Speaker 2:

Okay, well, yes, it's like a whole book in itself.

Speaker 1:

No, I don't think that's true, but okay no-transcript.

Speaker 2:

Harry Potter no, did they ever have a chapter? That's 30 pages, and don't roll your eyes at me.

Speaker 2:

I tried to read it when I was younger. I picked it up, I read the first few chapters, or maybe just the first chapter, and I just found it really difficult to read. I was like what's a muggle born? What does this mean? What does that mean? I just felt I was like there's too many terms in here and I don't know what the fuck they mean, and I put the book down because I didn't have the patience for them to explain it later.

Speaker 1:

That explains so much.

Speaker 2:

Okay, well, anyway, okay, we'll stop now.

Speaker 1:

So it's 30 pages, yes, but I think it covers a lot. So I think it's a valuable 30 pages because she even says this is the general section of the book, the first sentence. So she talks about frameworks for how the brain heals, which are safety and stabilization, remembrance and mourning and reconnection. And I mean not to skim over that part. But the part I really liked about this chapter was she goes over like actions that you can do, so there's like ground. She goes over grounding, techniques for mental grounding, physical grounding, soothing grounding wow, you fucking jumped.

Speaker 2:

What page we on? Oh my gosh, but you're no longer on. You're no longer on page six, whatever it was. Where'd you go? Yeah, turn the pages like a person, I am just, but it's 30 page chapter give me a page fucking number.

Speaker 1:

Now it's 70, page 70 damn, but she just goes through all of these and I really like that.

Speaker 1:

She like kind of just goes through things that could help you, because not one thing will help every single person. So I think some of these like would not fly with me. Like exercise, like that sucks, but like get yourself outside, so like okay, I can maybe do that, and just I don't know. She just has different things in here for this chapter that really are actionable items, which I like. I like to take an action or to be told to do something, checklist, that kind of thing. So for me it was like oh, mental grounding, this is where you can have like a phrase you repeat to yourself to try and get yourself out of kind of the spiral.

Speaker 2:

Oof Mantras or make lists A mantra, great Making lists. That just provokes anxiety for me. I freaking love lists.

Speaker 1:

It just provokes fucking anxiety.

Speaker 2:

I freaking love lists, like what it's like making a grocery list. I'm not gonna get grounded if I make a fucking list but I know it's very satisfying too it's so satisfying.

Speaker 1:

Way more people than me check that list off. It's just like oh yes, thank you. I I'm proud of myself.

Speaker 2:

Well, mental grounding. There's also physical grounding like this touch objects around you. But one thing like my my therapist has always told me put two feet on the ground, like put your two feet on the ground, sit up straight and put your hands like on your, I guess by your knees what is this called a thigh put your hand on your thighs and then just kind of just breathe or just sit with it, like kind of thing. So this one says like jump up and down, make sure your feet are touching the floor, and then it's like take off your shoes, feel the ground beneath you. So when I garden I usually garden barefoot and I mean there's snakes and all sorts of critters around here, but I kind of don't give a fuck.

Speaker 1:

Like it just feels, feels more natural, it feels more like I'm connected to something when I'm gardening barefoot. I think there is something to say, like actually touching the ground is so good for you and that's where, like they have, those shoes that have like are basically not mold to your feet, but they have toes, you know. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 2:

Shoes that have the toes yeah.

Speaker 1:

And like people, some runners love them because it's running Like you're, you're walking, or running like your bare feet, because you know there's just so much benefit to that. So I, I have a dog. So like there's poop in my backyard, but no, no, I, I have no problem like walking around without shoes. It's especially in the summertime, with the grass, so nice there's pooping.

Speaker 2:

There's poop in my backyard too. Why do we have poop in our yards? Because we have animals. That should be the name of the podcast episode. Why do we have poop in our yard?

Speaker 1:

oh yeah, that they'll really get us some street cred you know what?

Speaker 2:

there's also soothing grounding. Let's just run through these really quick because it's like a 30 page chapter, which I've already said multiple times. So there's soothing grounding, which is essentially self-compassion and self-care in difficult situations, like thinking about things that make you feel better, like visualizing things that you enjoy, like you enjoy a sunset, you enjoy ice cream on the pier with a bike. After you drove your bike there in a fedora. You know it could be very detailed. She doesn't say that was me, just a little bit.

Speaker 1:

I did a little bit more there yeah, you had like three shots of espresso this morning or something no, I'm manic.

Speaker 2:

This is a mental health podcast like I can literally share. I'm in the middle of a mixed manic. This is a mental health podcast Like I can literally share. I'm in the middle of a mixed manic episode, or just a mixed episode, I guess. Yeah, I can't stop talking, can't stop crying. We're doing the most. It's honestly wonderful. Anxiety is really steering the ship right now.

Speaker 1:

So you literally use none of these from the chapter.

Speaker 2:

Well, I just I, I like oh, my gosh you know what I haven't? Read the book until like right before we did this oh, I'm sorry that I've been in a place where I forgot about all the things that I'm supposed to do.

Speaker 1:

I'm sorry, depression is a thing yeah, right is it?

Speaker 2:

oh my god, what's the stigma you?

Speaker 1:

won't let me get by, so bringing it back. Self-compassion exercises. I'm skipping a few. I'm on page 81, miss Kelly. 81, self-compassion exercises. So self-compassion means being as kind to yourself as you would your best friend. Right now, you need to be kind to yourself, kelly, so that's why we're doing this one. So the first thing you should do is put your hand over your heart and remind yourself that you experienced suffering. Oh, that's kind of sad.

Speaker 2:

And just think, just you saying that made me angry, like my initial response, like what the fuck, but then no, this suffering is part of the human condition.

Speaker 1:

Give yourself permission to be kind to yourself and forgive yourself for imperfections again, my initial reaction is like no, fuck, no. My self doesn't deserve that.

Speaker 2:

No, like, it's like it really thinks like, like, if, like, cause on that, like mental health, and me currently, like, when I hear that I'm just like no, like I don't want to do that, I don't deserve that, like I'm not worthy of that, like this is what's happening to me, it fucking sucks and I'm going to sit in it.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to sit in the suck because the suck is a safe place because this is where it always ends up. So you know what to expect. We can't sit in the. You know the bad. You have to say yes. I know you are freaking out right now. It will pass and you will feel better. Keep breathing. You know what sucks this right now. You know what helps. This isn't permanent. You've totally earned a cookie for dealing with this today From the book.

Speaker 2:

I know I told you I was reading. I was crying when I was reading this and there's things in there that triggered me, that was, like you saying, that brought tears to my eyes. Well, it's fucking a.

Speaker 1:

Oh my good. Like you saying, that brought tears to my eyes.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's fucking a good gravy. Oh, great have your partner.

Speaker 1:

Hug you Um. What's your favorite out of all of these?

Speaker 2:

Like one of my favorites is get yourself outside, like cause I'm a big believer in that, like just sometimes I'll let my dog out in the backyard filled with poop and sometimes, calling her in, like I'll go outside and go get her, just because I know like this will feel good If you just go outside for even like a minute, like it'll, it'll just, it'll just feel good that for some reason I could handle. I could handle going outside and like feeling good, it's just I just thinking about it decreases my anxiety.

Speaker 1:

You should become like a park ranger actually. No, you would get lost in the forest and we would never see you again, constantly you'd have to send out a whole bunch of other fucking park rangers to get me. Yeah, never mind, I take that back completely. I don't know the one I like and this isn't necessarily, like you know, a helpful strategy or whatever, but uh, she mentions use your story to create meaning. This is page 90, kelly oh, you skipped ahead.

Speaker 2:

I was gonna say, I also like exercise okay, shut that down.

Speaker 1:

I don't want to talk about that I know, I know.

Speaker 1:

Fuck crossfit and fuck spinach smoothies so she says the healthiest people are the ones who find a meaning in chaos, the ones who can find the pony in a pile of shit every time. So I like that because I mean it is the whole like everything happens for a reason, you know, whatever, but it's just knowing things are going to happen and knowing you can make it through it anyway. So, like, like I've said before, where my can make it through it anyway. So like, like I've said before, where my therapist I told her I was like I'm just waiting for the next shoe to drop, like I just have anxiety about like when's this shoe going to drop? And she's like it's not. Like if it's when she's like life happens, life has its ups and downs. Why are you laughing at me?

Speaker 2:

I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing at this quote. Okay, read the quote.

Speaker 1:

No, I'm not going to read the quote. Keep talking. Well, I'm done with my spiel.

Speaker 2:

It's a controversial quote. I'm not going to read it out loud.

Speaker 1:

Well then you have to read it out loud.

Speaker 2:

No, I refuse. Oh great, Thank you this is.

Speaker 1:

Gosh sorry, I'm just not going to do it.

Speaker 2:

It's not something I'd ever practiced doing, so I just we're just going to leave that aside. So moving on from that oh my gravy.

Speaker 1:

Okay, we got to wrap this up because otherwise we're going to be here forever. So I really enjoyed the chapter. A lot of useful, like I said, actionable items, which I love. So I think it's a good chapter to continue to come back to and try things out, see if one works for you, if something else doesn't.

Speaker 2:

Like exercise, even though I really should exercise, yeah right, every doctor fucking tells you when it comes to mental health, well, like what do you do? Like you know, do you exercise? Like that'll help you feel better.

Speaker 1:

It's honestly fucking true, though, like it's true. I know it just sucks, but you know, once you're doing it, it's okay when I lay down that doesn't suck, that's nice, a nice little nap, because it's like, okay, cool, I could be on a treadmill and be depressed, or it could be snuggled in a blanket depressed. And right now my body's like snuggled in a blanket depressed, please, so well.

Speaker 2:

I feel that usually, sometimes, I'll cancel my classes before because I just want to stay curled up in a ball of the blankie.

Speaker 1:

But you could lie down. You're two degrees.

Speaker 2:

You could lie down. You're right, you could actually lie down on a Pilates reformer, no stop talking. That's why I started this.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2:

Nah, no, it's great, it's wonderful Working out on your back while lying down. You can squat while lying down.

Speaker 1:

You can down Like you can squat while lying down. No, I have stairs in my house. I go up and down the stairs.

Speaker 2:

Okay, okay, that's great exercise, wonderful Kimberly.

Speaker 1:

Do you feel good when?

Speaker 2:

you get to the bottom of that staircase.

Speaker 1:

I know you're being facetious, but I feel like a champion because I'm like, I am not winded. I live my life the way I like to live it. No, I don't, that's a lie. Thanks so much for listening.

Speaker 2:

You can totally follow us on social medias. We're on Instagram. I'm not okay at. I'm not okay K podcast. You can shoot us an email with your two degrees If you want the chance for us to read your two degrees on the pod cast. I don't really know if I'm comfortable calling it the pod yet, but email us your two degrees, or in the episode description there is a link where you could just text us your two degrees and it just goes into. You know our little emails and then we see it there and we're also now officially on Tik TOK. So our little emails, and then we see you there and we're also now officially on TikTok. So that's a thing the TikTokster.

Speaker 1:

That's a whole thing. Please rate wherever you're listening to this podcast.

Speaker 2:

Yes, please rate. Just put us, you know, five stars is fine. You don't even have to leave like a review, like description. Just hit the stars. Five of them, though, or four, whatever it is Like if there's four stars and hit the four, but if it's there's five stars when is there four stars?

Speaker 1:

just don't hit one star is all I'm trying to say okay, hit the most stars possible, please, and thank you, but that's it yeah, all right, here we go.

Speaker 2:

We appreciate everyone and just remember when you're here you're never alone bye.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Kelly Kranz

Co-host
Head Shot

Kimberly Jahns

Co-host