I'm Not O.KK
Welcome to I'm Not O.KK, a fresh and engaging podcast where we dive deep into the world of mental health with authenticity, empathy, and a dash of humor. Hosted by two dynamic voices Kimberly Jahns and Kelly Kranz, each episode brings to light aspects of mental health history through storytelling and today's personal stories and triumphs that remind us we're not alone in our struggles.
Every other week we tell a story related to mental health and wellness. With candid conversations we want to dismantle the stigmas surrounding mental health, offering our listeners a safe space to reflect on their own experiences and find comfort in shared stories.
Each episode ends with engaging discussions during the book club portion of our podcast where we dive deep into mental health themes.
As your hosts, we don't just navigate these conversations from a distance; we're right there with you, sharing our battles and breakthroughs. Our goal? To infuse each discussion with laughter and levity, proving that even in our darkest moments, a spark of joy can be found.
I'm Not O.KK is more than just a podcast; it's a community. Whether you're seeking solace, understanding, or just a good laugh amidst the chaos of mental health challenges.
Because when you're here, you're never alone.
I'm Not O.KK
The Pandemic: Minds Under Lockdown
How has the COVID-19 pandemic reshaped our mental health landscape? Join us as Kimberly examines its profound effects on anxiety, depression, social isolation, and essential workers.
Email us at notokkpodcast@gmail.com
We appreciate you!
Hey Kelly, oh hey Kimberly, what's up? Welcome to our podcast.
Speaker 2:Why are you welcoming me to our podcast?
Speaker 1:Because it's just nice to be welcomed. We are, and you are, on the I'm Not OKK podcast, where sometimes we're just not that OKK, but also, like we're pretty, we're rocking it like most like, like sometime, like most of the time, I'm way too. I'm way too positive right now. Yeah, that was a lot of positivity coming at me.
Speaker 2:I wasn't sure what to do with it or who you are, so. I'm glad you acknowledged it. Yep yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So I actually did something in my personal life that relates well to this podcast. I went with my family to see Inside Out 2. Have you seen it?
Speaker 1:No, but I was talking about it Me and my mom were talking about it recently because she loves movies. So she was like I'm going to go see Inside Out 2. And I was like, oh, the first one was so great, because I just love how it simplifies what goes on in your brain Was good, did you love it?
Speaker 2:yeah, it was like very much similar to the first one, where it does like it was just it was so cool to see, because it was like anxiety is one of the emotions, yeah, and spoiler alert like she has, like I think, an anxiety attack, and it was just like so it was simplified, but it also like you just got it. You were just like, yes, I feel seen. So, yeah, it was, it was kind of cool to see.
Speaker 1:I wonder if I could, is that? I wonder if I could see that out of theaters, if I could watch it on TV.
Speaker 2:I don't know what.
Speaker 1:I mean by TV One of the streaming services.
Speaker 2:Like, you can buy it streaming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes they'll release it there and in theaters at the same time, cause I would love to watch that from my couch tonight, now that you brought it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that sounds like a Kelly thing. Yeah, it was cute. I I mean I really liked it, cause once again it does like like mental health, but in a much more palatable way, and it's cute, and it's funny like there's adult, not adult like sexual humor or mature humor.
Speaker 1:It's just like, oh, only adults would get this, because you know whatever, just like yeah, they always sprinkle, they always sprinkle some in that in. But luckily no more goofy, getting boners during theermaid's marriage ceremony.
Speaker 2:A Goofy isn't in that. That's the Sultan. That's the Sultan.
Speaker 1:No, goofy is seen in front of the Little Mermaid. He's in it for some reason. What? Yeah? No, he's a subliminal message, as they call it In.
Speaker 2:Little Mermaid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, goofy Boner, little Mermaid. Where the frick is he? Oh yeah, Goofy Boner.
Speaker 2:Little Mermaid when the frick is. He, oh, found Goofy and Mickey.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:I don't think he has a boner. You can't even see him.
Speaker 1:No, In my mind there's Goofy's out there.
Speaker 2:Oh, in your mind, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, you said it's the Sultan that got a boner.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought you said Aladdin.
Speaker 1:No, not Aladdin that got a boner when okay, I said you said aladdin already.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not aladdin. No, yeah, I don't know why.
Speaker 1:I've been listening to aladdin a lot lately, so that's probably why that was one of my favorite movies growing up and it wasn't the original. I want to say it was like the fourth aladdin or something like that, and I would take the four, there's a ton of fucking aladdins.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would take, uh, maybe three I'm pretty sure it was four though I would take two chairs and make the fronts of the chairs touch, and then I take a like blanket and put it over the chairs and I'd sit on it and that'd be my magic carpet while I watched the movie.
Speaker 2:So that is so cute. How old were you when you did?
Speaker 1:this gosh. I don't know if I could remember it. I want to say I was probably like nine nine or ten if you're like this.
Speaker 1:18 no, no, this is also a part of my life and I think a lot of us did this growing up is like we put on shows, like we're like, we put on dance shows or like theme shows, like, and we were just like with our friends and then we'd invite, like our family members or other friends to come see it. So I was always doing like these themes I'll call them theme shows with, like, my neighbors, and we'd be like oh, we have a Lion King towel, okay, let's hang it up in the room. And like, we'll do Lion King today, so we'll play like Lion King music. And then you know, you had the big fat camcorder, like recording us and we know supporting us, and we know it.
Speaker 1:Just I don't have any of those movies because they're on my neighbors. So I'm a little, I'm a little jealous that I can't see that cringe factor, because it's gotta be.
Speaker 2:I would not want to see that but yeah, cute yeah yeah, little kelly, you know little rock star, that's so adorable yeah, she did some shit, wrecked some shit up I mean live your life as long as you're vaguely responsible. Lately I've been using that word vaguely a lot Vaguely yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you ever like find a word and then you just use it a ton? Because that's what I've been doing and it annoys me and other people, but I just like it because I just sound more intelligent, I think, when I'm like using this word. You know Mm-hmm, Are you?
Speaker 1:But no, no, no, I've done that, but I don't do it with words that make me sound intelligent, like I'll hear slang that I like.
Speaker 2:Oh, and then?
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, I like that, like I'm going to incorporate that into my conversation. So, for example, like one of them is out of pocket, like I love saying something's out of pocket. So I, instead of saying like you know, oh, that's messed up, I can't believe she said that Now I just say out of pocket, like out of pocket. Like I was watching like a TV show the other night and I just kept saying it over and over again, like about everyone's behavior. So that's how I do it. I do it with slang. I just want to be a kid forever, fuck it I just want to be a kid forever.
Speaker 1:Keep up with the slang. Do you ever use the term Riz? No, I guess no. What are we having? No, what is that? You don't know what Riz is. No one's ever said that in any of the YouTube or the things I watch.
Speaker 2:Any of the YouTube videos on the internet?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Any of the YouTube any of the YouTubes on the internets. I I've never seen that Okay.
Speaker 2:I need to find okay. According to Reddit, it means the ability to pull someone or impress them, someone having games, so to say. But I've heard it as charisma it's short for charisma or sex appeal. So if someone says you've got riz, that's a really good thing oh, all right, so it's kind of all right.
Speaker 1:So it's like you got riz mate.
Speaker 2:I wonder where it comes from why did you become australian?
Speaker 1:it sounds like it because it sounds like it's from or yonder. It doesn't sound like it's something that came from the states. Well, okay, you ever watch love island? Like their slang is like so different than ours. Oh yeah, let's like we're cracking on. Like we're cracking like oh, you have good banter, like you know, like we don't say things like that, but I feel like riz would be like oh, he's got good riz. Or like they'll be like oh, he's a, he's a real, he's a real geezer, like they say things that you know, like like he's got riz, he's a geezer.
Speaker 1:I could see it like coming from there, but yeah, no, thank you for educating me about Riz.
Speaker 2:It's Oxford's word of the year for 2023. But going back to Australian, have you seen the Mary-Kate and Ashley the one down under? Yeah, he's like we'll throw the buns on the Barbie and have us for brekkie. I don't know where that came from. Yeah, classic, mary-kate and Ashley.
Speaker 1:I was part of their fan club. I'd get a manila envelope mailed to me once a month and it would have professional photos of them in it and then just a little write-up or something and their fake signatures. Or maybe it would be a book, or it would be a poster of their new movie or something. Oh my gosh, it was their fan club.
Speaker 2:That's like Mary-Kate and Ashley book of the month, except like fan club of the month.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was cute. It made me feel really special, because I clearly remember it.
Speaker 2:Oh, once again little Kelly.
Speaker 1:I know we're doing a lot of little Kelly today. Let's do a little two degrees, though. Let's do a little two degrees, let's do a little. Okay. Let's do a little two degrees, though let's do a little two degrees.
Speaker 2:Let's do a little, just a little bit. Okay, how did your two degrees go?
Speaker 1:So last week I talked a lot about how I feel about emails and opening them and my anxiety. So I was trying to make some movement and effort there to have less anxiety. Movement and effort there to have less anxiety. And I'm coming at it by reframing the story in my head. So that's my new two degrees at this moment, because I don't think I could physically have physical action yet, so it's kind of like more mental. I think my two degrees is to reframe the story in my mind, like reframe it that this is not a bad email. This person's emailing you looking for help. This is, you know, this is a good email, like lovely email. There might be an Amazon gift card in this email, like any, you know, just happy stories.
Speaker 2:That's called the scam.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know, just like just making positive associations with emails, even though they might sound so ridiculous, like oh, there's $100 in this email. Like, oh, this Nigerian prince is real, like that's you know that's 90 day, fiance.
Speaker 2:We can't get on.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so that's that's my two degrees is. I'm going to try and mentally reframe that story. It's something that I'm going to continue working on, because it inhibits my job and it also just generalizes my anxiety throughout the entire fucking day, cause when do you not get emails?
Speaker 2:all the time, all the time but how did you? Did you send your emails from last week Like how?
Speaker 1:did you? How did your two?
Speaker 2:degrees go last week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I've sent. I have sent out every email. But there there are some emails that give me more anxiety than others, because sometimes I'm just worried that I come off very controversial and that's not true. I don't. But yeah, I did a good job. I put I had to push myself through it, like I had to push myself through it. It was uncomfortable as fuck. That's why I want to take less of the physical approach of just do it, just do it to like more, like I need to mentally landscape this shit so it doesn't. It's not just driven by anxiety.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean that's good that you sent them, though I mean that's huge. Not everybody can do that, but have you ever heard of the thing where it's what people think of you is none of your business? There's that one. And then it's also like how people perceive you is on them, not on you, or like how people react to you, or whatever it is. I don't know the exact turn of phrase, but both of them.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like how people think of you, or like take in what you say you can't control and isn't like isn't your business, because it's like, okay, I want to be a good person, but I'm coming at this with biases and stories and like all these things in my head that make up how I perceive this, and they're coming to this with the same thing. So it's like I don't, I can't live their life. I'm just going to do what I do. I mean easier said than done, but just something I try and tell myself when I get anxiety about these things, or like because I'm a people pleaser, so I'm always like okay it's not my job to take on what they think of me and in the long run I don't care.
Speaker 2:There's the people I love around me, value their opinions, but you know, anyway, I digress, you can tell I've had caffeine today.
Speaker 1:Three shots of caffeine. Tell me your two degrees on three shots of caffeine. You mean three espresso shots, or are you just like? Why yeah?
Speaker 2:three espresso shots that I drank at like 7 am. Like, honestly, oh, it's still going, it's always going in me, except when I take I can drink espresso and then take a nap. So like there's that version of Kimberly and then there's also this version of Kimberly where, like I'm probably it's probably not caffeine, but my mind thinks it is. So it's like woo. So anyway, I digress. Okay. So my thing was taking better care of myself. I didn't do it. I tried but like I had a lot going on and like my health kind of took a back seat, which isn't good because you always have. You know, health should be basically priority number one. So kind of disappointed in myself for that. But I'm going to take it and I'm going to learn from it and recognize that I don't take good care of myself or self-care in a physical sense.
Speaker 1:Well, not all the time. Don't be black or white about it. It's not like that for you all the time.
Speaker 2:It was just that is true, that is fair. I am an all or nothing person too.
Speaker 1:Me too. It's very hard to get out of that thinking space.
Speaker 2:It is, oh yeah, extremely, extremely. So I'm wondering if there's a piece of that like taking better care of myself, if there's one specific thing I can do. You know where it's like when we read in the previous book, where it's like I'm just going to like drink a glass of water every morning or like whatever it was and just like start one thing.
Speaker 1:But like breakfast in the morning. No there's your one thing Wake up. What if I want?
Speaker 2:a cup of coffee instead, and I don't want breakfast.
Speaker 1:Well, what I always do is I don't, I don't, I don't wait. I love breakfast, it's my favorite food to eat, but when I wake up at like my house and like you know, I usually start with a I'll just eat a yogurt, I'll just house it. It doesn't matter what it's flavored, and I know yogurt might not be the best for your gut, but whatever it's actually phenomenal for your gut. There are things. There are back and forth, like things, studies on it, or or like opinions on it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know on it or like opinions on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know, I've never heard the negative. I've always heard it's just great for your gut. Yeah, no, there's negative out there, but yeah, so I eat it, I have, I have a yogurt, and then I'll make my coffee. Cause they say if you don't have something in your stomach when you start to drink caffeine, that increases your cortisol levels, which then increases, heightens your anxiety, and you know all those things that we're trying to keep down levels which then increases, heightens your anxiety and all those things that we're trying to keep down. So I always try and make sure something's in my stomach. So that's how you could kind of trick your brain a little bit to be like, well, I need to put something in my stomach for this reason, not like you're just having breakfast, to have breakfast. Maybe you could twist it into a story that makes you a little bit more apt to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't know all that and this is very unhealthy of me and I admit that, but I kind of like to have caffeine on an empty stomach because then it hits better and then also I'm not hungry for most of the morning.
Speaker 1:I know, I know, I know, but I I'm still, I've, I. I've had one yogurt today and I've had two espressos and maybe it's I'm starving. But I've been working and I haven't been able to stop or think. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but now.
Speaker 1:I've thought and I'm like, oh, now I need food.
Speaker 2:I know food is coming soon, yeah yeah, okay, I'll do that Eating something for breakfast, like eating anything for breakfast. Even.
Speaker 1:I'll do that Eating something for breakfast like eating anything for breakfast, even just a granola bar, like as you're walking around and getting your coffee no, no, no. Chocolate chips in it no, no, no, no, no, no, there could be chocolate chips.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, you're the one telling the story today, and I'm excited to hear it, but we do have a listener wrote in about their two degrees, so I'm going to read that real quick, if you'll. Let me starts off. Hey, okay, okay. Your podcast has been so helpful, especially the two degrees idea for mental health. It really clicked with me. I used to get stressed, trying to fix everything at once, but now I'm taking small steps and it's making a big difference. I started with just five minutes of meditation each morning. It was easy to do and now I'm slowly doing more. You've shown me it's okay to take it slow. Thanks for helping me look after my mental health in a way that works. Your show keeps me motivated every week. Thank you, and it's signed Sophie from Columbus Ohio.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, Sophie. We're happy to help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm glad that you shared your two degrees with us and that it's working. But it's just, you know, it's so simple Just little movements, little movements.
Speaker 2:We do what we can. I saw this. Oh my gosh, I should, we should share it on Instagram. I saw this where it's like small increments still make you move forward, because it was like one to the 36th power or whatever is still one, but 1.01 goes to like 30 to the 36th power goes like 36 or like whatever. But basically saying, even small increments get you forward, like move you forward, so it's so true?
Speaker 1:Yeah, fine that we'll post it, cause everything you just said just sounded like babbly math to me.
Speaker 2:Words, words, words, numbers, numbers, numbers. Yeah, I like lately I haven't been good at explaining stuff, but hopefully I'll get good at explaining stuff because I'm about to dive into my story.
Speaker 1:So jump aboard, let's get it, let's get it Okay.
Speaker 2:So this one is still vaguely relevant. Oh, look at me saying vaguely again.
Speaker 1:Vaguely, that was the word. I was going to bring it up before, when you were saying I can't speak. I was going to say but you say vaguely, but I couldn't remember, I vaguely couldn't remember that you talked about it. I vaguely couldn't remember that you talked about it.
Speaker 2:I'm vague, so this is pretty relevant and I'd love to hear your personal experience on this as well. But I'm going to cover COVID-19 and mental health. Look at that, Look at that Look at that. So I am. The sources are who? That's funny.
Speaker 1:What, where, when why?
Speaker 2:But it's the World Health Organization. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Kfforg and covid19.nihgov. So that's where I'm getting this stuff, getting this stuff. So what was COVID-19? Or is COVID-19? I believe it's still out there. It was. I don't actually know the actual illness. It was like a respiratory thing.
Speaker 1:I believe. Yeah, it was a respiratory infection.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it could like. Many people passed away from it, especially those who had not underlying symptoms.
Speaker 1:What's that called Pre-existing conditions? Yeah, pre-existing conditions, yeah, yeah, so this created a global pandemic.
Speaker 2:Many countries shut down completely. People had to work from home. They weren't allowed to go in public. Groceries had to be dropped off.
Speaker 1:You're just describing the worst, like two years of our lives.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like it's hard because so much happened that it's like, how do I sum this up in two minutes? But it's like the world shut down because this virus spread. They don't, I think it was. Was it like in the air?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it could be no, um, or was it I? It wasn't able to be caught like it wasn't an airborne illness no, like it was droplets. I think it was something along those lines. Yeah, which is why, why you wore, why you wore a mask, it was to protect the. It was to protect other people, not to necessarily protect yourself okay, okay, yeah you wear the mask, you're you're sick and you're coughing.
Speaker 1:They do that, and they do that in countries in Asia, oh yeah, other places in Europe. It's just a, it's just a natural thing. They do all the time, like if someone's feeling sick, they put a mask on because it's it's kind and respectful to the people that are around them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't do that in America.
Speaker 1:You're like fucking A. You want to get into that one. Yeah, anti-maskers, what were?
Speaker 2:you doing Okay. Okay, kelly, we're going to veer, off course.
Speaker 1:We got to stay on course if we want to keep this podcast within a certain amount of time.
Speaker 2:You picked a hot topic, you picked a hot topic.
Speaker 1:It's not even that hot.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it's hot so many. Yes, there was many controversies, much conversation about what we should be doing, how's best to take care of ourselves, all these things. But it was a large unknown. Like people didn't know who it was affecting, how this virus is affecting people, until we finally got the vaccine for it. And then things slowly began to open up again, like people could go outside and go into stores and like hug their friends and family and all these things. So that's COVID-19. That is just like the tip of that iceberg, but I thought I'd just briefly cover it so we know kind of what we're going into here.
Speaker 1:You just remind us of our trauma.
Speaker 2:Yeah, seriously.
Speaker 1:Crosses so many generations. Sorry, just keep going.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, Kelly, you have a lot of feelings about this. I can tell yeah, You're like we can't get into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we can't. You're like we can't get into it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we can't. The COVID-19 pandemic triggered a 25% increase in the prevalence of anxiety and depression, like worldwide, so no specific country. There was a survey that went out like to obviously not every country but like many countries out there, to kind of look at how populations were doing health-wise after the pandemic. So there were multiple stress factors that kind of went into people's mental health or how they were doing during, I'm going to say, the pandemic. That's COVID-19 pandemic.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, no, covid-19,. It caused it. It now we're the pandemic.
Speaker 2:And now we're here, and now we're now we're suffering let's go, let's get it okay so one major thing and this kind of goes back to our discussion about, like, uh, solitary confinement but there was an increase in the unprecedented stress caused by social isolation. So everybody had to kind of live in their own little bubble. And some people, if you lived with your family, great, but it's like many people. It was like me and my spouse, me and my child. It was not many people.
Speaker 2:And while some people broke those rules, that's kind of where spreading kind of happened, but many of us day to day, it was like I'm staring at the same four walls for the second year in a row, I'm not seeing my family over Christmas, I am not going shopping, I am not, you know, doing just the day to day activities. So this also led to constraints for people for work, like everybody well, not everybody, but many people had to work remotely. And those that couldn't work remotely there was the fear of getting sick. There was also I know in my state there was one I think they made PPE. Because PPE was running low, they worked for like 24, 48 hours straight Like they would sleep at their workplace, because people needed this PPE so badly.
Speaker 2:So it's like the stress of just getting your job done, or if you're helping to save lives, like people who are on the front line.
Speaker 1:The essential workers. That's what they called it. Yeah, I was a restaurant worker at that time. I was considered essential and what I found? I'm going to get into the government, so I'm just going to leave it alone. But you know, when you're putting us out there and you're risking our lives like I, should have probably gotten a stimulus check too, even though I was working, like especially those nurses I was just flipping burgers, but like those nurses that had to show up, and you know, gosh they just get.
Speaker 1:I just done dirty by being called essential workers.
Speaker 2:Like give me a fucking badge, thank you that felt great, but yeah in New York was it where, like, people would applaud out their windows when, like nurses, like the shift, would be up or something, and it's like, yeah, yeah, that's cool. It kind of shows humanity supporting, but it's also like they are literally putting their lives on the line because they don't know what this virus is. They don't know if they could catch it. Terrifying, terrifying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they just show up and that's their job. It's pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my cousin, she's in PT, she's a doctor of PT and they were so short-staffed she began basically becoming a CNA because they needed people just doing that stuff.
Speaker 2:And like she. I saw her and I was just like, are you okay? Like is everything okay and she's very kind, and I don't think she wanted to like put the burden on anybody. But I was like, are you okay? Like is everything okay and she's very kind, and I don't think she wanted to like put the burden on anybody. But I was like, oh girl, you need some self-care. Like I can't even imagine what you're going through, but anyway.
Speaker 2:So social isolation was one. Another one was that fear of infection, you yourself dying or a loved one dying, grief if somebody died. And then financial worries, because many people were laid off because companies couldn't afford them or they didn't need them anymore because everything was shutting down. So it's like, okay, cool, everything's shutting down. How am I going to pay for my life? So a lot of these things kind of built up during COVID-19. It also says I know we were just talking about healthcare workers, but among healthcare workers, exhaustion had been a major trigger for suicidal thinking in that sphere, which I mean, all they're seeing all day is death and just illness and people being put on respirators, and they can't be with their families.
Speaker 1:They have to be separated, like that has to kill you, like in some sense it's just like. I mean I know like you can cut yourself off from certain things to get your job done, but at what I mean humanity, you know level. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Like support and just like having your loved, yeah. So anyway, let's just say you got COVID-19, but you weren't, you didn't have preexisting conditions. There were things that would still affect your mental health if you got this. Besides, just like you know, the fear of having it. So brain fog, anxiety and depression, psychosis, seizures and suicidal behavior. So these are just things that could affect you if you got it. Specifically for children, and this is not if they got it, this is just children in general and this is not if they got it, this is just children in general. Now, I'm just kind of trying to chunk out different people and like how it would affect them. So, for children, we don't fully know how this is going to affect the children who were children during the pandemic, because so much changed for them and they're still so young. We're only like two years out of it. They're like a they're like a, a test.
Speaker 1:They're like a scientific test, like to see what's what's gonna happen. I mean my niece, like I see it in her, like she, she does not wash her hands with soap. Like that's an example of it. And I'm just like why don't you wash your hands with soap? Because she was taught, because she was like four during the pandemic, that you have to use hand sanitizer all the time. So she'll always argue and be like I'm going to use hand sanitizer and I'm going to be like, well, no, you have to wash your hands with soap. So I'm seeing a little bit of it, like it's just so ingrained in her because of what we all had to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a friend of mine's a teacher and she was talking about how she had a student in her class who, because he wasn't in school when he learned to write, he writes like he just holds the pencil, like he doesn't know how to hold a pencil because he was never taught. And the stress like not only was this stressful on ourselves, but if you had children, you had to make sure that they were being taught. So NIH is supported research is looking into things that they think are going to affect the cognitive, social and emotional development of children during the pandemic. So they're looking at and studying the changes in the routine the virtual schooling mask wearing caregiver absence or loss and financial instability. So these are kind of where I think they think the greatest impact is going to be. And that's something else. Mask wearing that I didn't even think. It's like you read people's faces and you learn to read people's faces, like there's so much learning happening as a child, just developmentally, that it's like two years, like I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1:I always thought, like because wearing the mask is just, it's just so uncomfortable, it's just, you know, it's. I mean, after a while you're like, oh, it doesn't bother me, but it's just, it's annoying. But then you see all those little kids come out and they'd have their masks, and they'd have their masks on.
Speaker 1:And you know, they're gross cute little things in those masks and I just kept thinking like this has to be some type of like an evolution here. It has to happen, like because all these young kids are just like wearing like masks and they're okay with it and they're not questioning it. Yeah, yeah, so I, yeah, anyway, I digress as we say. I digress, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I yeah, Anyway, I digress as we say. I digress as we say. There were a number of groups that were more likely to experience the symptoms of mental illness and from the pandemic, and these people, I mean, are the classic people who get affected more. No-transcript. So people in those not only are more likely to experience those symptoms, they're also at a greater risk for just mental illness in general, like after the fact, Following people who actually got COVID-19, people were more likely to have symptoms of PTSD, which I find interesting.
Speaker 1:Just about to ask about that. If you're going through it and you're not processing it and dealing with it, and they have all this going on. Did PTSD reveal itself after a certain amount of time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is saying symptoms of PTSD. I'm not sure if they'd actually diagnose it as PTSD, but yeah, like you said, it makes sense because you're going through this very traumatic time and you don't have the time to process it. Like so much is happening and I hate to say it, but it's like when people are dying, mental illness takes a back seat and it's like I don't care that, like I'm happy you're alive. Now please leave. We need your bed. It's terrible, but it's also kind of realistic where it's like we need to keep people alive. Deaths due to drug overdose increased sharply across like the total population coinciding with the pandemic.
Speaker 1:I've heard you know, when I do the YouTubes, the YouTubes, the YouTubes and such the different rappers or shows that I watch mostly the rappers they'll talk about how many people they lost during the pandemic due to overdoses, due to isolation. I'm like, wow, that's incredibly sad. It's just not something that I would have thought of. But at the same time because I don't think like an addict, but I could understand suicidal thoughts, I could understand wanting to hurt yourself, I could understand those, but, yeah, I didn't think that, like the addict, the addiction route.
Speaker 2:But what else are you going to do? And you have no support, like no physical or sometimes emotional support around you, like I'm sure there were like AA meetings online, but that's still not the same connection I'd imagine, at least for me. I had therapy online and it just feels different. It doesn't feel like you're in this safe space. Yeah, but drug overdose death rates are highest among American, indian and Alaska Native people and Black people.
Speaker 1:Wow Okay.
Speaker 2:Alcohol-induced death rates increased substantially, with rates increasing the fastest among people of color and people living in rural areas. So, after briefly decreasing, suicide, deaths are on the rise again as of 2021. And many of these articles I read were 2022. So I don't know. Know, I'm hoping that kind of decreased back down, yeah, but additionally, self-harm and suicide ideation increased faster among adolescent females compared to their males.
Speaker 1:I'm not adolescent, but I'm fucking female. No, but like I get it females.
Speaker 2:females were more affected in the pandemic than males and I kind of wonder if it's because females always seek out connection or you know, friends or you know getting together that kind of thing. So are men. I wonder if they're already not used to isolation but they're used to like. Okay, I don't see my friends terribly often anyway, you know it's just a slight inconvenience rather than this huge inconvenience.
Speaker 1:There's definitely differences there. Don't know if that's it, but I agree with you yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm just. I'm not a doctor, I'm not a mental health professional. This is all just opinion. You're not.
Speaker 1:I had no idea. I thought I was listening to this podcast to like get medical advice from you. What medicine should I take this podcast to like get medical advice?
Speaker 2:from you on medicine. Oh gosh, no, no medical advice here, pure opinion and us doing a Google search. But there are, in on the other half of COVID, the one we have learned or we have adapted to a certain degree, certain services becoming available, like telehealth, which has become much more utilized across the board, so like therapy over video or the phone, even just doctor's appointments over the phone. They're not necessarily the same and I know sometimes insurance doesn't cover them or cover them anymore, but the fact that that's becoming a more prevalent thing is kind of nice, because people who are in rural areas might not have access to a therapist and it's like no, you should be able to have access to that support regardless of where you live.
Speaker 1:My therapist moved down to Florida, but even before she moved down to Florida we were doing Zoom calls, because she was in a city that was like 45 minutes away, because she moved from where or I moved away from her. So, yeah, so we, we did zoom. And then I loved when my doctor started doing telehealth that's what, that's what he called it. I think that's what everybody calls it. But I love telehealth because you could sit there while you're working and, like you just put it on your calendar and then your doctor calls you and he basically just needs to go through the motions of what's going on so he could do his checklist for insurance. And if it's nothing, you know, cause it's nothing serious, if you're doing like telehealth, if it's serious, like it'd be, like you need to come in. But I don't know, I like it a lot. I'm glad that they do it. If there's one thing I could say, though, I have a big pet peeve.
Speaker 2:No, it's not a pet peeve.
Speaker 1:It's like a rag rat but it's like not real. No, it is, it's a. It's okay, it's a regret. So I'm saying regret, but regret, okay. So it's a regret, are you?
Speaker 2:trying to be cool with your slang terms, kimberly. My rag rat To be honest, because you sound crazy.
Speaker 1:I've been using Zoom for work since, like since it, since it was invented, since it came on the scene. I've never used Skype yeah, maybe Google for a little bit, but it's always been Zoom. And then the pandemic happened and then everyone was on Zoom and they were like, yeah, it was in all of the SNLs, everything. It was just like oh yeah, we have Zoom, we're on Zoom. Now we're all doing Zoom. I should have invested in Zoom.
Speaker 1:What I learned is always invest in the tools that you use, invest in what you use. That's. That's the lesson that I learned from that. Because, god fucking damn it, man, who would have imagined that Zoom would have just taken over the world during the pandemic, like it could have been Skype? It could have imagined that Zoom would have just taken over the world during the pandemic.
Speaker 2:It could have been Skype, but no it was Zoom, so now we're giving people investment advice, okay.
Speaker 1:Continue with your story.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's not from a professional, let's just keep that in mind. Okay, so, in addition to telehealth, there's also more access to treatment for opioid use disorders, expansion of school-based mental health care and rollout of the 988 crisis line, which I had never heard of. Yeah, me either. So some of these things I'm not sure if they're still because, like I said, this article was from, I think, like 2022. So some of these things might have ended, or certain things only coincided with the pandemic, so some of these things might not be relevant anymore, but I think, overall, we had a few good things come from this. I'll say, overall, this was not a fun time for, I think, anybody.
Speaker 1:But there's silver linings. We don't say good things came from it, but maybe some silver linings yeah yeah, Okay, thank you yeah because good things didn't really come from it. No, we I mean.
Speaker 2:It polarized our entire nation I'm trying to have like a positive spin on this, but there really isn't. It was like a very difficult time in the world in the entire world, but anyway. So this is not a happy one, because we still don't know how this will affect mental health for everybody or the long-term effects, the end. Okay, let's go into our book club.
Speaker 1:Who are you? The end, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, what else do you want me to say?
Speaker 1:I got nothing else. Put a bow on it, tell me you were trying. You were trying to say like there was, you were trying to end on a good note, but then it was like no, there's nothing. There's nothing I could say. But no, that was, that was good. Thanks for sharing that information, because I am also very, I'm very curious about what the effects are going to be later in life. Why is there nothing? Or are they just really like masks? I don't know. I'm talking about the kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think so. I don't know. I'm talking about the kids. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think that's going to be it. I think there's going to be more. So, anyway, to the book to the book, all right.
Speaker 1:So the book to the book. To the book. The new we're doing chapter two of our book this week and the book is unfuck your brain by Dr Faith G Harper. And then she has a bunch of letters after her name that say that she is smart. So today's chapter, the chapter is called how Trauma Rewires the Brain. And then it says okay, lady, what the fuck do you mean by trauma?
Speaker 2:I knew you were going to read that, because let's see, play a drinking game but don't actually drink a glass sip of water. Every time Kelly quotes something from this book that has a curse word in it. I just can't help it.
Speaker 1:It's so good. But I actually thought of that when I was making my notes, whatever, like how I'm not going to talk about how it's just good writing this time Like cause, I mean the first chapter, you know, she was just explaining body parts and parts of the mind and things like that. It was kind of like a little anatomy lesson. So it was more me being like, oh, I love the way she said that with the curse word, I love the way she said that. But you know, I'm getting into it now.
Speaker 2:I'm into okay, okay so tell me about the chapter, kelly.
Speaker 1:What was your favorite part? I don't know. I marked a lot in here. So the whole thing's about trauma until you get to the end, and then it goes into ptsd, which is why which is why I brought up the ptsd earlier.
Speaker 1:One of the things that she talks about and this is something that I resonate with, because something that I've thought about in the past is there's lots the things that she talks about, and this is something that I resonate with because it's something that I've thought about in the past is there's lots of things that can operate as a trauma. She says there's lists of things and so it can't really be pinned down and people like you and me, kimberly, might experience the same thing, but how I deal with it versus how you deal with it, like, might be completely different. And there's no reason, and that's all due to upbringing, it's all doing to previous traumas we've had, it's due to a ton of a ton of human life experiences. So there's really no way to say why humans behave differently when they're faced with the same trauma. Okay, okay, you get shot. You get shot in the chest. I get shot in the chest, you're fine with it.
Speaker 1:It takes me years to recover and I have PTSD, that's what I'm trying to say, right here Cause you're making a face at me Like I'm confused and I'm like no, this is it.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty sure that's false. I am pretty sure if we both got shot in the chest, we would both die.
Speaker 1:No, no, I mean it's like off. Listen, it was a chip off the chest.
Speaker 2:But anyway, if you meant a metaphorical shot in the chest, okay, but a physical shot, I would argue pretty hard on that one, pretty hard on that one but she says there's a lot of things like I was mentioning.
Speaker 1:there's a lot of things that are considered trauma to people but not necessarily in their diagnostic manuals for trauma. So you can't kind of de-minimize someone's trauma.
Speaker 2:Wait time out.
Speaker 1:Did you?
Speaker 2:just say de-minimize.
Speaker 1:Minimize. Sorry, yeah, that's my one fuck up word for the time de-minimize okay.
Speaker 2:I love you, Kelly. I also love your verbiage. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I vaguely vaguely appreciate that Okay we can shut that down.
Speaker 2:That's a good word, yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of things that are deeply traumatic for people, but this, what I keep trying to get to here, is because there's so many different things. It leads then to people feeling ashamed that their trauma wasn't traumatic enough to warrant attention, which I feel that way sometimes, cause I'm like, okay, like this is such a little, this is such a little thing that happened to me, and then I'll look at other people and I'll compare, I'll compare myself to them and be like well, my trauma, if that's what I'm going to call it. Sometimes I don't even call it trauma because I'm just ashamed to call it that, because I know that there's much more things that are considered trauma out in the world. This is very true for me.
Speaker 2:I actually talked to my therapist about that, how I didn't like saying trauma and I forgot the word she used, but it was basically like an event, like oh, an event happened. You don't necessarily have to say trauma, because there is such that like weight of trauma and it's like I don't want to say like my mom, you know, picking me up late, was a traumatic experience and somebody else has been like assaulted, you know, like yeah, and not that situations are ever equated, but it's like I don't want to use that language incorrectly. So, yeah, I one, we shouldn't compare our experiences. But two, I totally understand that where it's it's, we almost lessen our experiences to allow people to like hold onto the gravity of their own, yeah, but then it it de-emphasizes. Hold on to the gravity of their own, yeah, but then it de-emphasizes our pain in that experience and we can't heal.
Speaker 1:We can't heal if we don't actually acknowledge it as a trauma.
Speaker 2:As an event that affected us negatively.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I like to think my, because I'm very much a visual learner and I like to see things visually. I imagine each of us is just like a ball of clay and everything that happens to us bad or good kind of molds us into who we want to be or who we will become. And so if you want to like change the way something molded you, you have to work to like change that dent that was made or like whatever that is. But everything in your life will affect you. So that's how I kind of like to think about it, because imagery, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:I like that. That was a nice, a nice take on it. Thanks.
Speaker 2:I'm an artist with my words and my imagery Vaguely.
Speaker 1:So I'm not going to stop you, sob I ain't going to stop, I'm not going to curse and I ain't going to stop, I'm not going to curse and I ain't going to stop. So what do you think about this? Because we've mentioned this before. We learn now that things can get stuck in our bodies and therefore like get stuck in our genes. So, she says, we now even know that trauma can actually create genetic changes that can be passed down through generations.
Speaker 2:Generational trauma.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's like if she says in here, if you have a grandparent with trauma, like, there you go, that's yours now it's being passed down. So our genes actually have an influence in our trauma reactions as well, so we're predisposed in some way about how to react predisposed in some way about how to react.
Speaker 2:Yeah See, I didn't take generational trauma so much as the actual genes getting passed down. I took it just outside this book. I took it as more so how we handle or how we view trauma or negative events in our life and that's kind of the generational. I didn't know like biology actually played into it.
Speaker 1:Well, to like, she doesn't say this is generational trauma, she just says that it's passed down through our genes. So so that's not Through our generations, our genes and our body. But the genes are passed down through generations I think it's different because she didn't say it oh my gosh something that she also writes in here.
Speaker 1:She says most of the time it takes about three months to re-establish equilibrium after a trauma. So after 90 days our emotional sensors are no longer operating at hyper warp speed mode and they return to normal. And then she also says no, I can't say it because it's a curse word in it, but she says using the word normal is total.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I don't, I don't know where you are in the book.
Speaker 1:Using the word normal is total BS, Cause I and I agree with her.
Speaker 2:What does that stand for?
Speaker 1:Oh God, it must stand for, I don't know, saloni sausage, butt stuff.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm sorry, what, yeah, I mean as she says so and I agree with her.
Speaker 1:like there really is no, like when you say normal, like it hurts my feelings, like to be like well, you're not normal, am I ever going to be normal? Like, yeah, fuck normal Like I'm, I'm atypical. Like maybe, maybe you're more typical, not you, kimberly, but just in general.
Speaker 2:I don't know your life Trauma is.
Speaker 1:They changes forever. And she talks about like we find this way to live and cope with the situation that happened, and it kind of brings us into a new normal. So it's not calling something. You go back to normal, like you now have a new normal and we still experience whatever happened and the feelings might never completely go away, but our amygdala that controls us Good old Meg, yeah, that, that that was super haywire over the whole trauma Like it's deactivated and it's calmed down at this point.
Speaker 1:But this is where we get into PTSD. This is what I found fascinating, because she said a third of the time after a trauma we don't recover to a new normal. We have a trauma response instead and we develop PTSD. Then she goes into a bunch of definitions about PTSD. Again, I can't read that. Good words, but I can't read it. But she mentions that the research shows that when we can't get to a new normal, it's because the brain's ability to process the experience is disrupted during the first 30 days after the trauma happened. This is why PTSD cannot be diagnosed in the first month. We don't know yet if we're going to get our shit back together or not. Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2:There's timelines on this Language.
Speaker 1:Oh, I read it. I read it word for word, but I didn't read it because it was cool.
Speaker 2:Take a shot of water.
Speaker 1:But isn't that crazy. So it's like you have like 30 days you might develop PTSD and then what was the other one? Is it 90 days? That I said Was, oh yeah, 90 days to like come back to get an equilibrium back down from your trauma. So they have timelines on this, like you can. Actually this is actually like teaching me to understand trauma and how it works. Teaching me to understand trauma and how it works and when I reflected on this and I reflected on it on a way about when my friend passed away and I was you know why didn't I develop some type of PTSD from that?
Speaker 1:That experience was traumatic. It was the first time I've had something like that happen to me. The situation, all of it, it was very, very traumatic. And as I was reading this, I'm sitting there and I'm trying to think how did I work through that, like that, that I didn't end up with some type of PTSD where I associate something like like I have pictures of her, like I, her daughter, like everything, like and I was, I was completely, I was completely fine after a very like it was weird, but then I, then I was okay and now I'm still okay and I don't have any of that. Some people, it really sticks with them. They have PTSD from these big losses in their lives and as I was reading it I was just like, well damn, I must've did good that first 30 days. I could tell you I pulled a lot of affirmation cards, like a lot of cards.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I don't know what do you think? I think I mean once again, not coming from a doctor, purely opinion, but like I think there's things that we deal with slowly. So when it happens, the thing I'm thinking of is my grandmother passed away many, not many years ago. I think it was actually during COVID, not from COVID or before COVID, it was shortly before COVID. But she was in an assisted living. She had Alzheimer's and dementia.
Speaker 2:It was very difficult for me, but I just slowly watched my grandmother disappear and it was hard for everybody in the family, but especially I was her grandchild.
Speaker 2:So it's like seeing this woman I emulated, who I loved, who cared for me so much and it was so difficult.
Speaker 2:But not saying that I wasn't affected by her death, but because I was with her kind of every step of that process, I kind of slowly started losing my grandmother and mourning that loss while she was still alive, because it wasn't the same grandma, because mentally she wasn't fully there and it's like I care about my grandmother but this isn't my grandmother. So I sometimes and I'm not saying this is you, but sometimes I think we process things in bite-sized pieces as they happen. So when this larger event happened that we knew in this case, like I mean, yes, she could have continued to live longer, but it was kind of inevitable. She was, I think, in her eighties, like she was older. So it was like when she passed away I cried, but I also knew what was going to happen and I also knew how hard it was on her mentally and physically. So it's like I kind of dealt with that entire process while it was happening, rather than just like being like why am I not, you know, sobbing and dead to the world?
Speaker 2:My grandmother passed away, it's like no it still affected me greatly, but I dealt with it incrementally and I don't know if that's like an actual thing, but it was just like it was almost getting used to a new normal. Every day, every time, my grandmother's health decreased. So, it was like coming to terms with it rather than just like suddenly something happens like that kind of trauma. I think that kind of trauma is a little harder not a little, but I imagine would be harder to take.
Speaker 1:Reading what she says is just it sounds like you had. She says some people don't have the time and the space to heal from the grief experience. But, like you were saying, you were going through the grief experience as she was still alive, so you were already going through your process. We all know people like this and we'll wrap this up here in a second. I just found this chapter just to be amazing. Sometimes we don't have the time and space to heal from our grief experience and then she goes into this example because we have to keep getting up in the morning, getting to work, feeding the dog, finding our kids missing left shoe. There's only so much work our overtaxed brain can handle. Taking care of ourselves often becomes a luxury we can't afford rather than a necessity we can't ignore. So sometimes you just don't have the time or space to heal.
Speaker 1:So that trauma just sticks, it just it's there, it's there until you don't know it's there. And then, like later in the chapter, when she's talking about PTSD and stuff like sometimes PTSD is like a is a root cause of other things that are mental illnesses and it's hard to come across because, again, in like, diagnostically there's certain things that cause PTSD but trauma can be labeled by anything Like you can't, you can't quantify it. Yeah, everybody knows what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we don't always know what you're trying to say. No, right now we're picking up what you're putting down.
Speaker 1:And then one last thing about reliving your trauma. I marked so many things I love. Oh, this is a good one. What if I love someone with a serious trauma history? I love this. Two things to remember here. This is not your battle, but people do get better in supportive relationships. I liked that.
Speaker 1:My goodness You're about to just read us the whole chapter. I love the chapter because it goes from trauma into PTSD. It explains how it all works. Then it has the supportive relationship. It just sounded like Larry and me. I just found out. I'm really identifying with this here. Okay, one last thing, though. This is one last thing.
Speaker 1:It's a really good statistic and I'm sure we've lost a lot of listeners by this point. But and when she's talking about PTSD she says you are clearly not okay now. Then there's a pretty damn good chance that it's going to get worse. And the VA figured this out when studying 9-11 first responders. Of the people who had some symptoms of a trauma response, but not full blown PTSD, 20% showed a symptom increase that qualified them for a PTSD diagnosis two years later when they were reassessed. Go fucking figure, drink I love how you're like drink it up. She's like go fucking figure.
Speaker 1:If you keep reliving your trauma, those connections keep reinforcing in your brain, which is that I think that is something we all do. We reinforce those stories, we reinforce those connections. We love to ruminate and think about the negative. Our brains are wired to be negative. Trauma is just I don't think you can't escape it. You can't escape it. I mean, yeah, you can't escape that shit, but if you read this book you'll learn how to get through it. And that was my last thing. I promise that was my last thing.
Speaker 2:Well, now I have a last thing, so promise, that was my last thing. And it ends up being like, okay, no, all these things come tumbling down and it's like, yeah, we're made up of so much, not just the good things. But you have to remember when you think about these things it reinforces that connection in your brain that makes it stronger and harder to get rid of. So yeah, good movie, recommend it. Yeah, I want to see it. I like the to get rid of, so yeah, yeah, good movie Recommend it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to see it. I like the first one a lot. I'm not even saying it for the podcast, I'm saying it because I mean it.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, listen if you're still listening to this podcast now, if you would just love to God bless you. Yeah, god bless you. Yeah, god bless you. And you could just rate and leave a review. I mean, if you don't feel like writing up a review today, that's fine, you can just drop a five star, especially if you love my ranting about this chapter of the book. Five star five star audience. Please Four stars. If you hate, know you hate the word vaguely, maybe you know, maybe three stars, if you know you just okay, let's not even get that.
Speaker 1:Kelly, we're not doing it. It would be much appreciated. So so thank you very much. You could also follow us on Instagram I'm not okay K podcast and you could send us an email at not okay K podcast at gmailcom, and you could send us an email at notokkpodcasts at gmailcom. We will take your two degrees. If you have a two degrees for us, you can email us there, or you could find in the description of each episode a link to text us your two degrees. It goes right into our system. We don't know your phone number or anything like that, unless you want to give it to us we could be friends.
Speaker 2:No, that's creepy. Don't do that. Stranger danger.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for joining us today and remember when you're here you're never alone. Bye.
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