I'm Not O.KK
Welcome to I'm Not O.KK, a fresh and engaging podcast where we dive deep into the world of mental health with authenticity, empathy, and a dash of humor. Hosted by two dynamic voices Kimberly Jahns and Kelly Kranz, each episode brings to light aspects of mental health history through storytelling and today's personal stories and triumphs that remind us we're not alone in our struggles.
Every other week we tell a story related to mental health and wellness. With candid conversations we want to dismantle the stigmas surrounding mental health, offering our listeners a safe space to reflect on their own experiences and find comfort in shared stories.
Each episode ends with engaging discussions during the book club portion of our podcast where we dive deep into mental health themes.
As your hosts, we don't just navigate these conversations from a distance; we're right there with you, sharing our battles and breakthroughs. Our goal? To infuse each discussion with laughter and levity, proving that even in our darkest moments, a spark of joy can be found.
I'm Not O.KK is more than just a podcast; it's a community. Whether you're seeking solace, understanding, or just a good laugh amidst the chaos of mental health challenges.
Because when you're here, you're never alone.
I'm Not O.KK
Genius John Nash's Beautiful Mind
Get inspired as Kelly tells us the extraordinary life story of John Nash, the genius behind the Nash Equilibrium, and his courageous battle with paranoid schizophrenia. We'll discuss how support systems and resilience can help overcome even the most daunting mental health challenges.
Email us at notokkpodcast@gmail.com
We appreciate you!
Hello, hello, hello and welcome to the I'm Not OKK podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh God, I should not sing. Well, this isn't a singing podcast, thank the Lord. So, yeah, yeah, but you're welcome for our voices.
Speaker 2:You're welcome for that treat.
Speaker 1:We're available for hire for singing purposes Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. For a very high price For screeching purposes. I'd like to think we're worth it.
Speaker 2:Screeching whining purposes. That's what my voice sounds like when I sing.
Speaker 1:Oh. You sing nicely.
Speaker 2:Do you have a good singing voice?
Speaker 1:Not to brag, I did. I've been. Well, not, I don't currently take piano lessons, but I took piano lessons for like a decade when I was younger, so I know like pitch. We talked about this. I was an oboe player. Yeah, I have some sense of like pitch and you know Tones.
Speaker 2:But can you sing? Can those pitches and tones come out of your mouth?
Speaker 1:Yeah, when I'm singing a song you can't tell I'm on a different note. I match the note, but it's not like oh wow, is she Adele? It's like oh, she's just singing, oh okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I imagine if you had an Adele voice, we probably wouldn't be doing this podcast.
Speaker 1:You'd probably be rich as fuck well, there's a lot of people who have good voices.
Speaker 2:That is true, there's a lot of people with good voices, but sometimes they just, they just blow, blow you away.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I was in the car and whitney houston came on and every time she comes on I am just in. I just love the way she belts it out and just, oh my gosh, and I'm then. I just sit there and I'm just like it's such a shame that we lost her, but that her music and the way that she sings like nobody can sing like that I've never heard anybody be able to do like a cover of that song and be like okay, that that's, that's, that's, that's good, that's decent.
Speaker 1:Are you thinking of the?
Speaker 2:I will always love you I believe that one was oh gosh, kevin Costner was in that movie. Oh my gosh. Yeah, before the podcast started, I was talking about Kevin Costner. I don't have a problem with Kevin Costner, but I also do. I think he's a great actor, but a lot of older women find him sexy and attractive and I do not whatsoever, so I always give them shit for it because it's like oh, kevin costner, I gotta go to the kevin costner film because I have such a crush on him and I'm just like kevin costner.
Speaker 1:But yes, yes, I'm sure also younger women find him attractive, not just older women. Yeah, very, very true, very true just but the demographic around here.
Speaker 2:Where I am is a lot of older women. It's a lot of older people.
Speaker 1:That's a legitimate message. Yeah, it is Okay. But I just think of with Whitney Houston, I think of that like that drum where it's like boom and then yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't want to belt it out because like yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, I got, yeah, I don't want to belt it out because like yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I got you, I can do it. I can't hit that note, but yeah that that is a good song.
Speaker 2:But anyway, we digress.
Speaker 1:Like, like usual.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, let's just jump into two degrees. You know like, yeah, let's just, let's just get it. Because we really we slacked on our two degrees last week like they were jokes of two degrees.
Speaker 2:They were like once again like one degrees, because they were kind of like chores, like I realized after the fact, like we just like, we're like, we're gonna do chores like that's. That's the two degrees, and I was like I think we messed up somewhere along there.
Speaker 1:I think it's still like a two degree thing though, because it's like oh, mental health can be a chore. This is just like a physical unpacking chore, yeah.
Speaker 2:We should have metaphorically unpacked. Yeah, yeah, like, if it's like, yeah, like it could be like you know my sense of wellbeing, like you know I'm going to unpack, like something like that. But we were just like, ah, fuck, it Need to to unpack this suitcase like this suitcase has been packed for over a month now. I need to fucking unpack it, yeah like we're literally like we gotta unpack. But okay, so did you actually do it, no, no, my suitcase is behind me on the floor, wide open my gosh, she's face palming right now.
Speaker 1:I had to drop my pen in dramatics face palm and look away from Kelly Because all you had to do was unpack a suitcase. I know.
Speaker 2:That's all I've had to do for months Even though this.
Speaker 1:You had one thing to do this week and I don't want to shame you for not doing your two degrees, but I'm going to shame you a little bit Because I have to keep you honest. Yeah, you got to unpack. I don't want to you got to.
Speaker 2:The funny part is I've been living out it Like I've been pulling clothes and living out of the suitcase. So it's like clothes are leaving one by one to go into the hamper, so it's like kind of naturally happening. But it's like, no, it's not. But that's not going to be my two degrees, that's just going to be my kelly. Fucking. Do it you like. Just get your shit together and get that out of your office. Like I can't even tilt my camera down, like as much as I want to, because then you'll just see just my clothes. It's like chilling in a suitcase. But it's a pretty suitcase. It's got little lilies on it, not that that matters at all.
Speaker 1:Let's help it get unpackeded.
Speaker 2:Well, what's your two?
Speaker 1:degrees. For today, mine was the same. I had to unpack my suitcase and I took care of it. But for today, what is it?
Speaker 2:Oh, like for the future. Yeah, what's your two degrees going forward today?
Speaker 1:Let me think, because I didn't think about this very much. You know what and this is going to sound crazy, but I need to take care of my teeth better. Like I brush my teeth and whatever Floss mouthwash. Like I just need to take better care of myself in the most basics of ways. Like, oh, I brush my teeth, my breath smells good, and then I'm like you know, like, oh, I brush my teeth, my breast smells good, and then I'm like you know, my teeth could be cleaner. I could wash my face, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and unfortunately you have one of those faces that don't know. Fortunate for you, you have one of those faces that don't break out in pimples or anything, you just look like that I'm actually.
Speaker 1:She's just a gorgeous. You just look like a gorgeous cherub. She's a gorgeous cherub the hairline pimples.
Speaker 2:Those are just sweat. Those are just like sweat pimples.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I'm not active, I'm not active. Where is that coming from I?
Speaker 2:sit all the time.
Speaker 1:I know I have a random side note. I have central air in my house, love it, but it doesn't get to the second floor and that's where I do a lot of my work. So I'm just like why is it so hot? And then I walk downstairs I'm like this is where all the air is do you have fans?
Speaker 2:do you have like ceiling fans in your?
Speaker 1:house. Yeah, do you know that?
Speaker 2:one of my rooms. Do you know, like, when you, you should reverse the directions.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, yeah I had to google it out.
Speaker 2:It was the coolest thing. I was like, oh, that's nice pun.
Speaker 1:That was the coolest thing because, like it makes you cool oh, because it makes you cool.
Speaker 2:I I'm not punny, so it takes me a second to catch up on punnies oh, okay, well, anyway, that's my two degrees.
Speaker 1:It's just to like take more time taking care of myself. I think that's it like sometimes I won't even like brush my hair in the morning. I'll just like put it back, like brush your hair so it's not a rat's nest. You know like take some pride in your appearance, you know, okay, okay, so taking more time to take care of myself, yeah, and just those little itty bitty ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so investing in those, investing time into those types. Investing in Kimberly. Yeah Well, next time we talk I want to hear how often you flossed. I'm not going to tell you Because you won't do it. Who flosses? People either floss the fuck out of their teeth like every single night, or just like of their teeth like every single night, or just like they just love it. So they do it for the feeling, or people don't do it at all like I, just I do it leading up to my dentist appointment you do, I don't bother, I don't care.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, it's better than brushing. I it's just, it is what it is. I'm gonna go to the dentist. She's gonna clean my teeth and she's gonna give me advice and say I should floss, but everything looks fine. Do you have any cavities? Growing up, I did have cavities. I have really deep grooves in my teeth, so it's very easy for me to get more cavities than the average person, but I haven't had a cavity in years. Oh wow.
Speaker 1:I used to know somebody. He got like a few cavities like in a matter of a few weeks and I guess his dentist was saying something about his saliva, so he's more prone to cavities or something. I was like what is this science, your?
Speaker 2:saliva is, is uh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like extra sugary, Like I don't it just sits.
Speaker 2:It sits in your teeth. So, gross, so gross, I'm done with it.
Speaker 1:Anyway, anyway, what's your two degrees?
Speaker 2:All right. So right now I am struggling. I'm having a lot of anxiety over, like engaging in work items, so mostly about email. Like I have this wild aversion to opening email. I think it just comes from years and years of communicating through email and you know, just sometimes people say dumb shit and I don't want to open it up and be like, well, this asshole said dumb shit to me, like I take it personally, even though it's just a professional atmosphere. But sometimes people get personal and and then I, just then I'm, you know, I can't emotionally regulate Like I just want to respond right away, can't emotionally regulate Like I just want to respond right away. So I want to fix this. I want to be able to not have anxiety over a simple email or looking at my email, it's, it's a real aversion.
Speaker 2:So my two degrees, I think, here is I don't even know where to start, cause I want to say like open an email. But that's just so scary to me. I know it's so silly, it's just, it's just so. I think my, I think my two degrees should start with reshaping the story in my head a little bit, telling myself like on a regular basis that it's okay, like maybe letting the feeling go through me, but not like attaching onto the anxiety Cause. I'll wake up immediately with anxiety and I'll be like well, do I have an email? Do I have to write an email today Like this? And that it's crazy, it's gotten out of hand. So what were you going to?
Speaker 1:say Well, it's just funny because for me, I mean I've actually gotten better about it, because normally I'd wake up and just check my emails, like right away, but lately, because I don't have work emails through Gmail, it's through Outlook and I don't have Outlook on my phone, so I don't really worry about emails as much. I mean, I still get personal emails on my phone, but those aren't very frequent. So it's just funny that I used to always be. Maybe there was a slight edge of anxiety because I'd always check it. I'd always be like what's happening? And now you're talking about email and having that. But it's like different types of anxiety where for me I'm just like I need to know if somebody got back to me on something. I need to check this, I need to be up to date, I don't want to let anything slip through the cracks. And for you it's like I just don't want to know, I don't want to find out.
Speaker 1:It's like opposite anxieties.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been in this field for a while and I remember one time it was 11 o'clock at night.
Speaker 2:I was at a friend's house, I was at a friend's party and we were drinking and stuff and an email came through from a client and it had my boss cc'd on it and me and it was probably about it was like a whole story long. It was like a block of text and it was probably about it was like a whole story long. It was like a block of text and the whole thing was just throwing us under the bus, like just saying how awful we were, how we couldn't do the work that we needed to do, how, like, dare he invest in us? It was just clearly something like was mentally going on there because this person had never acted like that before. But just getting that email, like at that point in time, like when I was enjoying myself, and then that email came through and just like wrecked my night. I just I think a lot of it stems from that, just that experience, cause I was just like who's coming for my boss, like that, like I, it just was all so personal.
Speaker 1:But yeah, and that's where that separation between, like, work life and personal life I think is so important. It can. It can ruin your whole day. You can overthink about it, you can want to respond and then you shouldn't. How do you deal with this? And I mean, that's kind of traumatic in a way, because that's a lot to take on, especially that late at night when you're probably not exactly, you know, the most mentally sharp, so it's just like a good time and then you just threw a bomb at me and like that's when I used to read my emails a lot because I'd be like a client, a client, a client yeah, that's, that's a shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have to pay me a certain amount in order to be on your beck and call that frequently, and that's. I mean. I'm still learning and I think a lot of people are where it's like, okay, when do I say no, like I'm not answering this email? It is past hours, you know, but certain jobs you have to, or certain jobs, that's an expectation. So, yeah, that sucks. That's a good one, kelly. That's. I mean, that's more than I think. Two degrees, but I dug deep for that one.
Speaker 2:I just had a whole little therapy session. Yeah, you unpacked something I did. Well, before I jump into my thrilling story, we had a write-in for someone who wanted to share their two degrees and I'm going to read it. Dear Kelly and Kimberly, when you try to justify where you are by pointing out how bad things are, you are headed in the wrong direction. My two degrees is to reach for the thought that feels better and allow the natural well-being that is mine. Small steps will change thinking to a healthier plan. This is something that I believe. Kat from Illinois, kat from Illinois, I like that. I think that's beautiful. Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like that's the best way to make progress.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's just, it's like, and wrapped in like this, like motivational talk, so yeah, so positive, yeah.
Speaker 1:So thank you. I hope it's not an actual cat from Illinois.
Speaker 2:We got a cat actually a kitty cat like writing to us Like have you seen those memes?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Honestly, that would be awesome that would be awesome.
Speaker 2:Our first two degrees email came from a kitty cat. Oh my gosh, that'd be so cute, but cat in Illinois Thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay, not you, you're Kelly. I am Kelly To cat, thank you. You were like uh-huh, I'm like no, I'm not thanking you, you didn't do anything.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I want to call you words sometimes, but I don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because then you know this would be over this friendship.
Speaker 2:Be done, finished, finito.
Speaker 1:My self-esteem is so low I could not handle that. I'd be like Kelly is critiquing me. I need to go cry.
Speaker 2:No, I would never do that.
Speaker 1:I'm not that judgmental, just don't do it to my face. That's something I've realized. I'm like talk behind my back, it's not great, but also, just don't let me hear about it. I get it. Nobody's perfect, but I don't want to know what you say about me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you say this because you have sisters. That's why you say this. That's where you learn this from.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, yeah, sometimes like I find out things, my sister said I'm like what? Yeah, I'd imagine. But then I talk about my sister, it's like we all do it, like come on, but anyway, anyway, let's get to your story, my story, my story.
Speaker 2:Okay, so this one's exciting. I chose this story because it's about a person who was considered like a type of genius and he struggled with mental health. So my sources for this and you might know who I'm talking about by some of the sources, because it's a little giveaway the main source that I use is the book called A Beautiful Mind by Sylvia Nasser. It is the definitive work on this person's life and their achievements, and the book was also adapted into a film, also titled A Beautiful Mind. It was released in 2001, directed by Ron Howard, starring Russell Crowe Do you know where I'm going with this, kimberly? And the film won several Academy Awards, including Best Picture.
Speaker 1:No, I don't know what this is.
Speaker 2:She doesn't know. Okay, so let's talk about John Forbes Nash Jr. Today we're going to delve into his extraordinary life. He was a brilliant mathematician whose groundbreaking work in game theory earned him the Nobel Prize in economics. But Nash's story is not just one of an academic achievement. It's also one of a journey through mental illness, resilience and recovery. So let's talk a little bit about John's background, where he came from, what he's all about. So John Forbes Nash Jr which, going forward, I'm just going to call him John Nash was born June 13th 1928 in the small town of Bluefield, west Virginia.
Speaker 2:His father, john Nash Sr, was an electrical engineer and his mother, margaret, was a school teacher. So this unique combination of technical experience and educational nurturing provided a very rich foundation for John's intellectual pursuits when he was younger. So from an early age, nash exhibited exceptional intelligence and a deep interest in science and mathematics. However, unlike most children, he preferred to be solitary in his activities over engaging in social interactions, like kids usually do. This tendency towards introversion and independent thinking became a defining characteristic throughout his life, and once he attended high school, that's where his academic prowess became evident. He excelled in his studies, but was often considered eccentric by his peers, while other students engaged in typical teenage activities, nash immersed himself in scientific experiments and extensive reading, showcasing his natural curiosity and his intellectual depth. So he jumped into it in high school. He wasn't about the partying. He wasn't going to homecoming. No, he was about his studies. The partying he wasn't going to homecoming, no, he was about his studies.
Speaker 2:In 1945, nash enrolled at the Carnegie Institute of Technology, which is now known as Carnegie Mellon University. He got enrolled there on a full scholarship. Initially he planned to study chemical engineering, following in his father's footsteps. However, his passion for mathematics was too strong and soon became undeniable, which led him to switch majors. I switched my major like three times, by the way.
Speaker 1:Was it from chemical engineering to mathematics?
Speaker 2:Do you think I look like a chemical engineer?
Speaker 1:You know what? Let's not stereotype. You could, you could be.
Speaker 2:You're right. You're right, no, no, no, no. We went business, then we went pre-med and then we went psychology. Yeah, okay, okay, I see it, we got fancy with it. So back to this.
Speaker 2:He switched majors and he completed both his bachelor's and master's degrees in mathematics by 1948. And that laid the groundwork for his future contributions to the field. His exceptional performance earned him a prestigious scholarship to attend Princeton University for his graduate studies. He arrived at Princeton in fall of 1948, and he quickly stood out as a prodigy. His originality and unorthodox thinking impressed both faculty and his peers. It was at Princeton that Nash developed the concept of the Nash Equilibrium, a cornerstone of game theory. His 28-page doctoral dissertation was called Non-Cooperative Games. It was submitted in 1950 and introduced this groundbreaking idea that would later revolutionize economics and other disciplines. After developing the concept of the Nash Equilibrium, he took up a position at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, as we all know, mit. His work continued to be highly influential and he made further contributions to mathematics, including embedding theorems into geometry. So this dude's playing with shapes and stuff.
Speaker 2:However, his career was soon overshadowed by his personal struggles with mental illness. So in the late 1950s, nash began exhibiting signs of mental illness. His colleagues at MIT and Princeton noticed his increasingly erratic behavior and they wanted to help him and provide support. Nash started developing grandiose delusions, believing he was on the brink of a world-changing discovery. He also thought he was being pursued by secret agents and believed he had a special role in global events. In 1959, he was hospitalized for the first time at McLean Hospital, where he was diagnosed officially with paranoid schizophrenia. So over the next several years he was in and out of psychiatric hospitals and subjected to various treatments, which would be a little controversial today, things like insulin, shock therapy and antipsychotic medications that just weren't prescribed correctly. Yeah, these treatments were considered harsh by today's standards.
Speaker 2:Without a doubt, his mental illness strained his personal relationships, as most do, unfortunately, his marriage to Alicia Nash. They got married in 1957, and their marriage was severely tested when this began to happen. She played a crucial role in his life, providing unwavering support despite the difficulties. But their marriage eventually fell apart due to the stresses of his illness and they divorced in 1963. But don't worry, they remained close and later remarried in 2001. Aww, yeah, I thought that was sweet.
Speaker 2:So Nash's academic career began to suffer. As he was once a rising star in mathematics, his work was interrupted by his delusions and hospitalizations. So he resigned from his position at MIT and struggled to continue with his research. The mathematical community that once celebrated his brilliance and thought he was amazing now saw him more as a tragic figure, which is disheartening. It's just so disheartening. Yeah, that's sad.
Speaker 2:For many years Nash wandered through the Princeton campus scribbling equations on blackboards and speaking in fragmented sentences and I think this is shown off in the movie him scribbling on blackboards and the way he talks. So he was often perceived as an eccentric, as we know, and he was largely isolated from meaningful professional engagement. Him being a professor was kind of like we don't want anything to do with you at this moment. So Nash referred to these years as his phantom period, during which he was largely disconnected from reality and his previous achievements. In the 1970s he began to show signs of improvement.
Speaker 2:He gradually rejected his delusions, not through conventional treatment but through his own intellectual and mathematical rigor in the way he thinks. So he started to recognize the irrationality of his delusions. You know math, everything has an answer, everything is logical. So he just realized what was going on wasn't logical and it wasn't real. This wasn't what was happening. So his recovery as he did that and worked that out in his head by himself. So his recovery as he did that and worked that out in his head by himself. His recovery was also aided by a more stable living situation and ongoing support from his ex-wife at this point, alicia. She allowed him to live with her despite their divorce. She, this woman's good people.
Speaker 1:She's good people. Yeah, yeah, it always like the. Not that women are the best, but they kind of are Because it's like, okay, there's such great supports. And throughout history you hear of like women who have done amazing things, like Ruth Bader Ginsburg, where, like when her husband was going through I think it was cancer and she went to his classes and her classes in law school that's right. Or I think it was Einstein's mother, where everybody was like he's dumb, he's not going to amount to anything, and his mother was like I don't think so and she started teaching him stuff. It's just, sometimes it's like it's not just the person doing this, it's their support system and, as a woman, I like to call out the women in history.
Speaker 1:But it's like they kind of deserve some of this credit too. Like, yes, it's hard as the person I can't even imagine, but there are people who have similar mental health issues but then don't have the same support, so they're not able to come out of it as easily or handle it as well. So that's interesting that, like yeah, you called out his ex wife.
Speaker 2:Support is so important when you're struggling with mental illness. Sometimes I think if I didn't have the support that I have, I'd be homeless, I'd be on the streets, like I could easily see that life for myself if I don't didn't have the people in my life like that love me and want me to get better. So I'm. I'm very fortunate, but a lot of other people are not where.
Speaker 1:it's like the things you don't realize, like how beneficial they are. Like even you know your parents or your friends being like, yeah, talk to me about, like the issues you're having or your anxiety Cause in other groups. It's not, that's not even welcome. It's like no, you don't have an issue. Like that's made up, you know, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I dated a guy once, quick, tangent, and he thought depression and mental health and all this bullshit was made up. So I, we were together for a few years. So I asked my therapist is it okay if he comes in with us? And you know, we kind of talked this through and he could actually like understand, like my depression and and things that well, I was undiagnosed bipolar at that time, but things of you know he could just understand. We were in there and I had been seeing this therapist for a few years and I still see her. He, we were there for maybe five minutes. Then he stood up from the couch and started to yell at her, told her that she is a phony and she is a fake and she puts these ideas in my head that are not real and stuff like that. And then he stormed out and it was my car who drove there. I had the keys. So then this asshole starts walking home.
Speaker 1:I feel like you've mentioned the story to me. I'm not sure if it was on the podcast or not, but I think I definitely talked to you about this.
Speaker 2:I don't. I I'm pretty sure I didn't talk about it. I don't think I talked about it on the podcast. But home was like 20 miles away. So like when I got out, like he was on the side of the highway walking and then I picked him up and he was just like all happy because he got hitchhiked. He got a hitchhiked ride there and at that point in time I was like something's not right, like something is definitely not right. Something is definitely not right here. This doesn't make sense. But anyway, that was a side tangent. Just some asshole that didn't believe that I needed therapy or anything. Someone who doesn't want to help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's good that you found the support system that actually helps you rather than hinders you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right. Getting back into the story, by the late 1980s and early 1990s he resumed his academic career and began working again at Princeton University. In 1994, nash was awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics for his early work on game theory, which laid the groundwork for a significant branch of modern economics. But despite his recovery, nash continued to experience residual symptoms of his illness. He described his life as a continuous effort to manage his condition, always aware of the potential for relapse. So his story is a powerful example of the chronic nature of mental illness and how the constant efforts required to maintain your mental health. It is hard. It is hard, and this man's running around with schizophrenia and knows like I have to be proactive about this. And yeah, it's hard to manage your mental health, especially when you're in a space where you can't manage anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a conversation with my therapist where it was because I always am comparing myself, which isn't good, but I was just like I see all these other people not having to deal with this and like I just want to be done with it, like I want to handle it and I want to be able to move on with my life.
Speaker 1:And she's like anxiety will always be a part of your life, like this is something you will always have to deal with. Once you have the tools and you start to change the way you think and look at things more logically or whatever, then it becomes easier to handle, but it's never out of your life. And even she said anxiety is good. To a certain extent it makes you think about situations or that gut instinct, that anxiety, but it is. It is like it is something that is constantly needs to be worked on. But if you think of it I just thought of this If you think of it like any other health, like it's not like okay, we brushed our teeth. Once we're done for the rest of our life.
Speaker 2:Going back to teeth or like oh, I hate you for that.
Speaker 1:I know you're welcome or like oh, I jogged one mile, I'm done working out for the rest of my life. It's crazy how different mental health is separated from the rest of the health, when in reality it's like no, eat healthy, get moving. Also, you know, like connect with people. You know like we should have like a list of things that just help you be healthier mentally. And that's not really the case.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you labeled a lot of them there. They all go hand in hand. Especially, what you eat goes with your gut, and your gut really has a big reflection on what goes on upstairs Not in heaven, but like your brain and your mind.
Speaker 1:I was picking up what you were putting down. Considering we're talking about mental health, I wasn't like oh, why is she talking about religion?
Speaker 2:No, that should be a question that you ask. So finishing off John Nash's life is a story of brilliance intertwined with his profound struggles of schizophrenia. His journey through schizophrenia highlights the severe impacts of mental illness on personal and professional life, while also underscoring the possibility of recovery and the importance of support systems. Like we were talking about his wife, like it's just, it sounds very sweet. His legacy continues to inspire and educate people about the complexities of mental health and the human capacity for resilience, and that's the remarkable story of John Forbes Nash a mind that shaped modern economics and a life that teaches us about the strength of the human spirit. It's crazy, yeah. Yeah, I wanted to mention there's a 20-year gap between where he became diagnosed with schizophrenia and when he was able to go back to work.
Speaker 1:Dang.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so that phantom period lasted a minute.
Speaker 1:A hot minute.
Speaker 2:So that phantom period lasted a minute, a hot minute, uh-huh, yes, it did. Yeah, I liked it. I wanted to find a person who I find I liked doing people's stories. I think I said this earlier. I find them inspiring to see other people in similar situations just accomplish anything or a lot of things. I think two of these stories I've done so far this is the second one who won a Nobel prize yeah, so mental health is not always limiting, and that's the message that I really like to get across.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's a great point where you can let it define you or it can just be another turn in your journey of life. So, yeah, it's just it's hard to overcome when you're in it At least for me, I very much it's so easy to just sink, just like sink into your illness. So for those people that like claw and fight their way out, as difficult as it is, it's, it's pretty cool. Yeah, pretty amazing.
Speaker 2:So we are officially starting a new book this episode Book A book, A book darling.
Speaker 1:We're starting a book.
Speaker 2:Are we doing Hocus Pocus?
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't know, I was just mimicking you. Oh, when she calls for it, when Bette Midler calls for the book. I don't think I've ever seen that movie.
Speaker 2:Don't you say out loud that you've never seen it.
Speaker 1:I know the three witches and I know what they look like, because come Halloween I always see them. You've never seen Hocus.
Speaker 2:Pocus.
Speaker 1:I don't think so. I didn't really watch a lot of magic-y things around Halloween, I get scared easily.
Speaker 2:Did you ever watch Halloween Town?
Speaker 1:Oh, I did with that, because her name was Kimberly the main character.
Speaker 2:At least you're somewhere. You're somewhere in the range there, like Harry.
Speaker 1:Potter, but I don't know With witches. It always kind of freaked me out.
Speaker 2:The judgment that you're going to get from people hearing this Okay, I watch Matilda. She's not a witch, but like Matilda used to creep me out, gave me the heebie-jeebies.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that creeped you out, yeah sometimes give me the heebie-jeebies. Okay, did you see the Matilda the musical?
Speaker 2:I don't know what platform it came out on. Well, no, I wouldn't watch that because I don't like the original Matilda.
Speaker 1:Well, sometimes the remake's better, Sometimes it's worse, sometimes it's creepy as fuck. Okay, I won't go that far, but sure. Which brings us back to the book. Yeah, seriously, I have to go on a random side tangent, because this was. I forgot to mention it at the beginning. This was so cute. So my partner, sean, he, he, like I'm trying to eat healthier and I'm like Sean, please don't keep like sweets and stuff in the house or whatever. And I saw that he had Sour Patch Kid Oreos and I've seen them before and they're like specialty Oreos. And I was like Sean, like why did you get these? Like blah, blah, blah. He's like I was listening to your podcast about Oreos and you were talking about unique flavors and I thought you might want to try them.
Speaker 2:I was like oh my gosh, what a sweetheart. I just number one that he listens to our podcast and number two that he went out and did an action based off of the podcast.
Speaker 1:I know. So, sean, if you're listening, cash money please, just kidding Like you want money from him next time. Yeah, I mean okay.
Speaker 2:Why not, sean? If you're listening, you're, you're good people we'll keep you anyway, sorry random side attachment.
Speaker 1:I was just thinking about those oreos because I want one after this. So anyway, back to the book they probably taste gross.
Speaker 2:so the book we are reading is called unfuck your brain using science to get over anxiety, depression, anger, freakouts and triggers. This was written by Dr Faith G Harper. She is an LPCS, an ACS and an ACN. I have no idea what those letters mean.
Speaker 1:It just means you're important.
Speaker 2:Put them under things. I don't know what they mean, but she's, but she seems important. So the first chapter that we did here. By the way, I just want to preface this. I love this book because I love the way she talks. She puts the word fuck, like in every sentence and it's not like, oh, fuck, or oh like, or like. You know where it would usually go. Like, ah, fucking toe, it'll be like, you know, oh, the fucking couch. Like, like, like, just what, like. I love it. I love it because that's how I talk. I just slip right up your alley, I slip fucking to everything.
Speaker 2:It's the best word. It's just the best word, okay I beg to differ. I like other words better the first chapter is called how our brains get fucked and she says short answer trauma. So instantly I'm hooked, so you're like I relate to that trauma she wants you to know that this book is a is about general life, bullshittery and other people's dickitude.
Speaker 1:This book was written for you.
Speaker 2:Dickitude, dickitude. I like this sentence too, when she's talking about trauma, because that's what's going on right now on the first page is she's just diving into trauma and things like that. But then she says the way we manage stuff that isn't full-blown trauma, but sure as fuck isn't kittens, rainbows and teddy bears.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, You're just going to read us this whole book. I know Because you're just like I love these words that you put in sentences.
Speaker 2:This one might just be me saying like the best sentences in this, because you know it's my first time talking open the book.
Speaker 1:That's what it is this far. You're like I'm just going to read you the words I highlighted. I know, but I did like the way it was very conversationally written. Oh my gosh, it's very much like your friends, like this is crap, this is like garbage, you know. Or like even these subtitles. Why is my brain a big hot mess? Yeah, Like that's something I would say to my friends, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like it's very non, what's it called? I don't want to use the word snobby, but it's very just, it's relatable. You could understand it Like she. It's like she wrote it for me to like and not for For layman's like yeah In layman's, like yeah in layman's terms.
Speaker 1:The barrier to entry to read this book isn't like, oh, I need a phd and you know psychology it's okay, I realize something's up with my brain. I want to read this book and you can. She kind of goes through things in much more digestible terms. I like that word digestible. Yeah, we are digestible. Random story about my dog he ate a bandaid. That is not digestible.
Speaker 2:That's why his brain is a big hot mess.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, don't even say that about my little Walter Walt. Don't worry everybody, he's fine. I didn't realize he ate the Walt. The Walter ate the bandaid until he pooped it out.
Speaker 2:So was it dirty, was it a?
Speaker 1:dirty, bandaid I don't know. But so my partner and I were using Manuka honey Like it's a it's I don't know medical grade. But Manuka honey is supposed to be great for like band-aids and stuff. Well, what is honey? Honey is is supposed to be great for like band-aids and stuff. Well, what is honey? Honey is sweet. What does walter like sugar and food. So I think that's why you ate it. I don't. I must have been vaguely dirty why are we talking about this?
Speaker 2:you went segue and you're like my dog, ate a band-aid, because, yeah, I said digestible. Oh, yeah, there it went, there it went.
Speaker 1:So that's my train of thought.
Speaker 2:That's where I'm going. Why is my brain a big hot mess? You brought that up before. She says here that we we tend to separate our mental health from our physical health as they don't affect each other. And she says I'm sorry, I have to read it in a continuous fucking feedback loop or something. And Kimberly, that's actually something you were saying before. Like it all goes together right, you're like, you're the gut, the you were referencing that I was referencing that.
Speaker 1:Yes, Kelly, I think you just you just pulled like that thing where it's like, yeah, didn't you make that amazing point about how everything's connected? And it's like, no, that was you. Oh, I made that amazing. Oh, I did that.
Speaker 2:I did that amazing thing I did that like change your diet, get moving, maybe exercise. Exercise is so fucking important it is like, okay, shut that down.
Speaker 1:I don't know, it is so important.
Speaker 2:It is something every single doctor, every single psychiatrist every single thing I've ever seen you're behaving like I behave when I don't open up emails right now.
Speaker 1:So like a child, okay, cool, yeah. Anyway, back to the book. We're going off too many tangents. We're turning this into a spider web.
Speaker 2:We're going to focus now. So, yeah, so you stuff. The brain and the body, she says, go together. Definitely. The stuff that we learn about the brain generally falls underneath physical health, while our thoughts, feelings and behaviors fall under the mental health category, so she's separating them. She makes some good examples here about a helium balloon, but I'm not going to get into that. But she goes on to say that our thoughts and feelings and behaviors are rooted deep in our physical bodies and how our brains perceive the world around us based on past experiences and current information. Shit is getting stored in our bodies. I've heard that too. Well, that's what trauma does. Trauma gets stored in your body.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was also discussed in the last book, I know, yeah. So I mean it's nice to see these reoccurring themes where it's like, oh so if I don't deal with it, it doesn't just go away.
Speaker 2:No, no, it doesn't.
Speaker 1:It can't. It can't.
Speaker 2:So when our brains don't manage shit properly, we tend to see these common effects, and let's see if we identify with any of these. I'm sure we do Freaking the fuck out, avoiding important shit we need to take care of. Hey, that's me Feeling pissed off all the time. That's a little bit of me being a dick to people we care about. That's a little bit of me Putting shit in our bodies that we know isn't good for us. Hello McDonald's, doing shit we know is dumb or pointless or destructive. I am the queen of self-sabotage. So my brain traffic control sucks dickens, sucks dickitude.
Speaker 1:Are you even use this verbiage right? I don't know.
Speaker 2:She started with dickitude, like these people with dickitude behavior, so I'm just going to stick with that. So now, I really liked talking about the asshole amygdala.
Speaker 1:Did you like it or did you just like the title?
Speaker 2:You know I'm going to need to separate. You know I like the title.
Speaker 1:It's going to be like okay, kelly.
Speaker 2:Well, I've always been. I took a few notes here because I've always been fascinated by the amygdala and how it just controls shit. So it is just really briefly. The amygdala and the hippocampus are two key parts of the limbic system. Most of what we know now about how trauma affects the brain is tied into research about the amygdala. So the amygdala's job is to relate memories to emotions. And then she goes true dat I just love it. I love it so much.
Speaker 1:Oh my.
Speaker 2:But to be more specific, the amygdala has been found to only store a specific kind of memory, not all of them. So the amygdala doesn't give a shit where you left your car keys. It's essentially the storage of event-based knowledge times, locations and people. So your stories about the world and how it works tend to come from this and the shit that happens to you and she goes in to talk about, like how storytelling brains.
Speaker 2:But first I want to talk about fight, flight or freeze. It's, it's the brainstem, so it comes from the brainstem, and the brainstem may be a basic bitch, but it is sure as hell in charge of a lot. So when it's the brainstem senses danger, like we've talked about before Kimberly, it's fight, flight or freeze. Fight, beat their ass before your ass gets beat. Flight, get the fuck up and out of there. It's fight, flight or freeze. Fight, beat their ass before your ass gets beat. Flight, get the fuck up and out of there. It's not safe. And freeze. If you play possum and don't respond at all, maybe all this will go away. So these are essential survival tasks. I do freeze, I freeze and curl up in a ball and hope everything fucking gets away from me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm very similar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she goes into talking about storytelling brains. Everybody has one and this is something that my therapist talks to me about a lot is, all of our brains have stories in them and some of them are not real. Our brains also wired to be negative, so a lot of the stories are negative. Like we have a story is like a thought about yourself. Like so I'm no good at riding a bicycle. Like that's a story. Like that's that's, that's something in your head. And if you're always like, completely always giving it confirmation, that's not the best.
Speaker 1:I think Brene Brown says, or her thing is, she's like the story I tell myself. Like that's cause it is. It's the story that, like you're repeating in your head.
Speaker 2:And she points out here, which is something I didn't think about. She said we're so. Our brains are so wired to tell stories that we even do it in our sleep. We do it in our dreams Interesting no-transcript to watch on TV. Like you know, am I going to work out when I get home.
Speaker 2:They're not like bullet reminder lists, Like you actually walk through a whole story of your plan in your brain. There are often walk through a whole story of your plan in your brain. They're often rehearsals for life events, which makes them really fucking useful if we're getting ready to test a new skill. But they're also, you know, they could hurt us, because our stories can be detrimental to who we are and also to other people. Yeah, and just specific things we want to do, Like you could have a whole story about. Like you know, the roller coaster is going to like go off the tracks if I get on it, Like it's just, yeah, that might be a little bit more OCD. And then just the last part that I'll talk about and that I really liked here. The headline is it's official. You are not crazy. A doctor just said so.
Speaker 1:I love that. You love that part.
Speaker 2:I do. I do so. She says whether you find yourself defensive or combative, freaking out hardcore, or completely shut off and dissociated, it's your survival mode that is responding. The problem is when this happens during situations that aren't actually life-threatening emergencies. So the amygdala has hijacked your ability to manage the situation in a rational way. So again, with the emails, that's a perfect example. Yeah, like it's so irrational, but my amygdala latched onto that. Yeah, fuck my amygdala.
Speaker 2:Okay, I mean super important, but sure yeah, yeah, so yeah, those are the notes that I took down for the first chapter. She wants you to know that you can retrain your brain. Much like the last book, it seems to be a theme here that we're going for. So the first, the first chapter, is basically just defining terms and talking about different parts of our brain and body and, like I said, I love this book because I get to say fuck all the time.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I just got introduced to the word dickitude. So next week we'll be doing chapter two, so if you want to go along with us, you're more than welcome to yes.
Speaker 1:Please join us. It is a very nice it's. The last book was really nice to like actually doing work. This one, I think, is more palatable for, like, if you're just like, I need to kind of get in to thinking about my mental health and maybe figuring out what's happening. I think this is a good entry point. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do too, I do too. And that was basically the first chapter and entry point, so I didn't want to talk about everything that we already talk about, because it is that it is what it is, and it is that it is that.
Speaker 2:So this has been our podcast. Thank you for listening. Thank you, please rate, review, subscribe. Send us your two degrees, yeah, yeah, so, um, in our podcast descriptions, uh, there's a. It says text us your two degrees. You can click that link there and something will pop up and you could type in your you know your two degrees, where you're from, what your name is, and then we get an email with that information. Or you could just email us at notokkpodcast at gmailcom if you want to talk about the book, if you want to submit two degrees that we could talk about, please follow us on Instagram. I'm not okkpodcast. That is our Instagram handle and just remember when you're here you're never alone.
Speaker 2:Bye, bye.
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