I'm Not O.KK
Welcome to I'm Not O.KK, a fresh and engaging podcast where we dive deep into the world of mental health with authenticity, empathy, and a dash of humor. Hosted by two dynamic voices Kimberly Jahns and Kelly Kranz, each episode brings to light aspects of mental health history through storytelling and today's personal stories and triumphs that remind us we're not alone in our struggles.
Every other week we tell a story related to mental health and wellness. With candid conversations we want to dismantle the stigmas surrounding mental health, offering our listeners a safe space to reflect on their own experiences and find comfort in shared stories.
Each episode ends with engaging discussions during the book club portion of our podcast where we dive deep into mental health themes.
As your hosts, we don't just navigate these conversations from a distance; we're right there with you, sharing our battles and breakthroughs. Our goal? To infuse each discussion with laughter and levity, proving that even in our darkest moments, a spark of joy can be found.
I'm Not O.KK is more than just a podcast; it's a community. Whether you're seeking solace, understanding, or just a good laugh amidst the chaos of mental health challenges.
Because when you're here, you're never alone.
I'm Not O.KK
How Valium Became America’s Favorite Chill Pill
This week tune in to listen to Kelly discuss the pharmaceutical drug Valium. We then talk about chapter 6 of "How to Do the Work" by Nicole LePera at our book club.
Email us at notokkpodcast@gmail.com
We appreciate you!
Welcome to. I'm Not Okay, Kay, I'm Kimberly and I'm Kelly and I've got my cherry coke and I'm ready to rumble.
Speaker 2:Oh, is that why you were burping before this?
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right. That's why we were burping before this. I've got a killer burp.
Speaker 2:Okay, no, I'm not taking ownership of that. That's all you You've got to admit. I have a killer burp though. No, no, thank you. I don't taking ownership of that. That's all you You've got to admit. I have a killer burp though. No, no, thank you, no, thank you. I don't want to admit that.
Speaker 1:No, thank you Pass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I have my water, because it has no sugar in it, it's just water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Usually I have like five drinks around me at once. I have like a coffee, a soda and a water. Oh, my water's over there Still fresh with ice. But I didn't do the coffee because I had a really, really strong coffee this morning. Like she must have just grinded the beans before they poured me that damn cup of joe. Oh my gosh, that was so I'm just coming down off of it now a little bit. How long ago had you drunken it? Drinking it, drunken it, drunken it, it was about girl math.
Speaker 1:Let's put it about like six hours ago Dang yeah.
Speaker 2:Breakfast Four I have to do math Eight. Oh wait, so seven your time.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was not eating at seven in the morning. You said six hours ago. Yeah, I said girl math about it, so then we'll go like four hours ago. Okay, there is a huge difference between these Goodness. That's what happens when you're in two different time zones and you can't just say it was 1030 in the morning.
Speaker 2:Well, you can say that and I'll know. It's literally an hour difference. It's not like we're doing a ton of math here. It's not like you're in China where I have to be like oh, time zones, am pm. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's still a lot them yeah, it's still a lot okay, maybe for you, but some of us are just geniuses at math over here. Yeah, I have something to bring up later about that too, from nicole's book about math. Yeah, I do have a really good point to bring up about math. Okay, mark it and it is. It's marked down in my book for our conversation later.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, I'm excited to see what you say. I hope it's profound, I hope it changes my life.
Speaker 1:Honestly, it won't, it's just some insight into me.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love those.
Speaker 1:It has nothing to do with you. You think everything has something to do with you and there's nothing to do with that?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm very egotistical and I can admit that. Okay, I was just thinking that would be like a Kelly nugget, but it's like what are those dino nuggies? For some reason it made me think of, like your last name, kranz, and I was like it will be like a Kelly dino nuggy, kranz. It doesn't work In my head it worked. Where did this?
Speaker 1:start and where is it going?
Speaker 2:You know how, when I learned something new about you and that's like a little nugget, a little Kelly nugget of information. So then I was thinking, oh, a Kelly nugget, a Kelly nug, a Kelly crayons, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know where I was going. So you wanted me to be a dinosaur chicken nugget. Yeah, I did. You wanted me to be a dinosaur chicken nugget, so you're going to be a dino nuggy. A dino nuggy.
Speaker 2:I love it. Kelly, kelly, dino, nuggy, I don't know where my brain is. It's probably because I barely ate lunch, so I just want to. I want to, I know next.
Speaker 1:I didn't eat lunch either. Well, you said barely, but I really. I just realized now I didn't eat lunch. Trick of the trade, yeah.
Speaker 2:The unhealthy trade.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. Yeah Well, I forget to eat.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's where I overeat, I overeat, so I'm in that camp. But do you have before you see your therapist? Do you have things you have to like circle the test thing?
Speaker 1:Oh, like, very likely, most likely like things like that, Like in the past week you had these types of thoughts. I had to do that on a regular basis when I was doing TMS treatments, but I don't do it with my therapist. Why Is that something that you guys do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like every week. And one of them is like are you overeating? I think it's overeating or not eating enough, or maybe it's oversleeping.
Speaker 1:Well, we do a lot of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like ooh, yes to both. But yeah, I actually this past therapy I had, I did it online. I took the testing online and it gave me an error or not an error a warning. It was like you might want to seek attention immediately. I was like, are you kidding me? This is a halfway decent score. It's not like I'm up towards the. I was like good gravy.
Speaker 1:Well, the low scores are what's bad, right?
Speaker 2:No, it's good, you get a point.
Speaker 1:Oh, the low score is good.
Speaker 2:It's like not likely, likely, somewhat likely, whatever, and you want it to be like not at all or whatever it is, because then I think that's a zero or that might be a one zero or one, I don't know. But then you add them all up and it was out of 21 and I got seven and I was like this doesn't seem too bad, I don't know whatever. My therapist wasn't worried, so I'm not worried like Like I was like okay.
Speaker 1:Is that something that you're there? I've? I've never had a therapist do that with me before. Do you, um, take those little? What would you call them? Evaluations, like a little assessments before having therapy for the first time. I mean, I've done a bunch of like you know, initial evaluations and things like that, but I guess she's got to prep herself for you big time. I mean, I've done a bunch of like you know, initial evaluations and things like that, but I guess she's got to prep herself for you big time.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah. Well, it's actually kind of cool, cause I'm I'm all about that data life. I love a good graph and they track like your scores, so you can kind of see like, oh, you have gone down over the past year in scores or whatever, and it's. It's kind of cool to be like am I succeeding, am I winning at?
Speaker 1:therapy. That is an interesting take on it. That's an interesting way to show value. Yeah, that's interesting. All right, yeah, I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like it Not for everybody, but yeah, yeah. That's all I have to say about that.
Speaker 1:That's all I got to say about that. What do you plan on doing this week to keep or change a habit to be healthy? I think that's something that we should probably touch on every episode to hold each other accountable, and maybe our listeners will have some ideas too about different healthy habits, that just small changes. It doesn't have to be like oh, this week I'm going to go for a fucking 16 mile run and it's going to be amazing, I'm going to get all the endorphins. It can be so much as just I'm going to go outside in running shoes. It can be so much as just I'm going to go outside in running shoes. Sometimes just the littlest two-degree movement in a positive direction. I think that's something that we should definitely talk about on a regular basis. You got anything.
Speaker 2:I mean we should, but accountability sucks, because then you actually have to do it yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I know. And then they say it feels good after you do it. That's what they say.
Speaker 2:That's what. Who says they Well, I'm over, they. Can you give me your thing? I need to think about this for a hot second in?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what I would like to do is I'd like to spend more of my time outside rather than inside, and I'd like to spend my time working with plants. So, naturally, being bipolar as fuck, I immediately buy everything possible that has to do with plants. Yes, I like get everything to get it going without ever having done it before. And you know, now I have this and, like, my anxieties are keeping me from doing certain things, and so my little two degrees took me a long way to get here.
Speaker 1:But my little two degrees is to just go outside for a half hour every day, whether it's I sit outside in the chair and just be mindful, not have my phone, or I really want to start taking my dog for a walk. And again, I don't want to overwhelm myself and be like we're going to go to the end of the block and back, which I know sounds so easy, but it's like, well, it's okay, me and her can just cross the street and go around the corner for a little bit. I can be okay with that two degree baby step. So that's what I want to work on, because that's the type of person that I would like to be Someone that can tell you everything about fucking flowers.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I mean, I love plants. I have so many plants that may or may not be alive in my house, so maybe we talk about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I showed you. I sent you a picture of my plant earlier that I showed you about three months ago that it didn't want to die. It was outside freezing. I took it inside, put it under a grow light and it is outside now with multiple blooms.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought that was a sarcastic photo.
Speaker 1:That was not, it is back to life, Like it was literally like decrepit, and it is back to life. This is like I kept this. This is a pride and joy plant of mine.
Speaker 2:We need to have you achieve higher things. Because, for those who have not seen this photo, it's like in a concrete-ish planter probably as big as maybe a pizza is how big the planter is and there's like four strands of a plant. They each have like a flower or something, but like these strands are like, oh, like, just itty bitty, like four strands pizza size. The rest of it's dead and it's not dead.
Speaker 1:No, it is not dead anymore okay, well, half of it's dead.
Speaker 2:that's what the brown means when crunchy, when it's crispy and brown. Kelly, here's a little hot tip that means the plant's dead, it's not coming back.
Speaker 1:I can't wait until it's the middle of summer and this thing has so much green foliage on it that you are just like you're going to be watch. I'm going to go buy a new plant and just send you a pic. Look that. Look at this plant, kimberly look what I did.
Speaker 2:I am a nurse yeah, you're like, this is my two degrees suck it.
Speaker 1:I've been working on this one for six months. It didn't die, yeah, but so weird.
Speaker 2:You were like oh, it's thriving. I was like okay, we have different definitions for thriving.
Speaker 1:But hey, hey, it's doing its best. I don't know where to leave that.
Speaker 2:honestly, that's doing its best but it's doing its best, or are you doing your?
Speaker 1:best, kelly. I'm doing my best to help it, because it didn't want to die and I wanted to save it.
Speaker 2:Well, there you have it.
Speaker 1:Guess what.
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 1:Today is my day to tell a story.
Speaker 2:You forgot to have me respond with my two degrees.
Speaker 1:Oh, all right. All right, let's listen to your two degrees.
Speaker 2:You are a terrible at accountability.
Speaker 1:You told me let's do yours, because you're terrible at accountability and didn't want to share yours.
Speaker 2:You go first and then to give me an example.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, just tell me, I need a different accountability partner.
Speaker 2:Okay. Just tell me everything Mine is, I would like to pet Walter. And while I'm petting Walter, I'd like to take a minute or two of just being mindful of that moment.
Speaker 1:Walter is my dog by the way, I really did not want you to clarify that Walter was your dog. I just wanted to let it hang there.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's nice, that's real nice. Okay, thank you, kelly, but yeah, so that's my two degrees. Now tell your little story.
Speaker 1:No, that's good, though they say that you find peace in your animals and petting them and just taking a minute to breathe in what's going on and being grateful for being in the moment. So that's a good two degrees, thank you. So next week I'm going to ask you did you pet Walter?
Speaker 2:I'm going to say abso-fricking-lutely. I gave him a ton of kisses. Oh gosh, he's so cute. Anyway, I digress. So I want to hear all about your story. Please tell me your story this week.
Speaker 1:I'm really excited for this one. I know you're going to love it. I know everyone's going to love it. So the past two times I've done people, so this time I figured I'd change it up a little bit. The sources for this story are going to be in the show notes. So now let me take you on a little journey Once upon a time. You like it. Once upon a time in the mid 20th century Wait, hang on Time out Mid 20th.
Speaker 2:What is that? 1900s, the 50s, 2000? The 50s, okay, yeah, so yeah, like the 1900s, the 50s 2000, the 50s, okay, yeah, so yeah, like the 1900s, okay, thank you, yeah, did we do good?
Speaker 1:there did we do well, okay, english teacher, keep going, keep going. So in the mid-20th century, there was a small but very mighty pill that emerged from the laboratories of Hoffman La Roche Butchered that, but Hoffman La Roche, it was a pharmaceutical company based in Switzerland, and this pill that we'll be learning about today is known as Valium. Valium would go on to make a profound impact on the world of medicine and society at large.
Speaker 2:Real quick, isn't it pronounced Valium, valium. Sounds like you're saying volume Valium, valium, valium, valium, v-a-l-i-u-m. Yeah, valium Valium.
Speaker 1:Valium how many times?
Speaker 2:I don't think you're saying it.
Speaker 1:Right, but okay, this is how we're saying it today. Okay, this is how I pronounce it.
Speaker 2:Incorrectly but sure.
Speaker 1:So the story of Valium begins with Leo Sternbach. He was a chemist working for Hoffman LaRoche. In the late 1950s, sternbach synthesized a compound called this one, chlorodiazepoxide, while experimenting with chemical compounds known as benzodiapines. We all know those Benzos. Benzos, yes, indeed. So these compounds have the potential to produce calming and soothing effects on the human body. The first compound that he synthesized, chlorantihazepoxide, was first marketed under the brand name Librium, which you might be more familiar with, and that was marketed in 1960. It quickly gained popularity as a treatment for anxiety and insomnia. However, sternbach didn't stop there. He built on that initial success and he continued his research and soon developed a new benzodiapine compound called diazepam, which is the generic term for Valium. So maybe I'll just say diazepam from right now, because I'm doing a podcast with an English teacher.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm sorry that I just speak correctly.
Speaker 1:In 1963, hoffman LaRoche introduced diazepam to the market under the brand name Valium. Initially it was hailed as a revolutionary medication and it quickly became one of the most prescribed drugs in the world. Its effectiveness in treating anxiety, muscle spasms and insomnia made it a go-to medications for doctors and patients alike. They saw this thing as a cure-all. It was flying off the shelves.
Speaker 2:They always do. They're like this cures everything, this can help with, like make everything better. And then you find out in like three years oh, this is super addictive and causes, you know, cancer and suicide. It's just like okay, we're all just lab rats.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's exactly where we're going. So diazepam's popularity soared through the 60s and the 70s. It seemed to offer a solution to the stresses and anxieties of modern day life. Like we were just saying, it was a problem. It solved all the problems. It earned a nickname called Mother's Little Helper.
Speaker 1:People from all walks of life turned to Valium to relieve the pressures of work, family and social expectations. What I find very interesting about this coming on the market is how it was marketed. This pill was the fuck was marketed out of it. The marketing campaigns behind Valium fueled its popularity as a household name, and these are the types of things that the campaigns focused on. One was promotion of anxiety relief. They had advertisements that depicted individuals facing common stressors of everyday life, like work deadlines, family responsibilities and social pressures, with captions emphasizing how Valium could help them feel calm and in control. There was an emphasis on safety and efficiency. The advertisements often featured endorsements from medical professionals and testimonials from satisfied patients. They also I love this. I love this so much. They also tried to appeal to women so much. So much so that sometimes it was specifically marketed to women, particularly known as a way for them to cope with the demands of their roles and responsibilities, while maintaining their calm and composed demeanor that they're supposed to have.
Speaker 1:So Valium like I said earlier, was referred to as Mother's Little Helper, and this is. I didn't know this, but that term was popularized by the Rolling Stones song Mother's Little Helper, which was released in 1966, which references the use of prescription pills, including Valium, as a means of dealing with the pressures of suburban life. The song lyrics depict a housewife who relies on medication to help her cope with her responsibilities and the monotony of her existence. So this got all the way into pop culture. It made it there.
Speaker 2:Aren't there a lot of drugs, though, that make it into songs?
Speaker 1:and pop culture Nowadays, yeah, but now we're talking the 50s and 60s.
Speaker 2:Juice WRLD isn't out there now, yeah but they were inadvertently singing about a lot of drugs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sex drugs and rock and roll that was more the 80s, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't know, I wasn't alive. I'm very young, very, very young, you'd know, kelly. You're basically a senior.
Speaker 1:I am a senior, I am.
Speaker 2:But like Puff the Magic Dragon, I mean you know, it's like yeah, that's real.
Speaker 1:It's solidified just like the other ones, then what's solidified Like? Solidified as like in pop culture.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, yes, I'm like the drug. What are you?
Speaker 1:talking about the drug now solidified its existence. It is no longer Okay that's yeah, that's just crazy.
Speaker 2:when it enters the mainstream, then it's like okay, what's happening?
Speaker 1:And that's what this marketing did. It literally it made everything mainstream. It made it normal, like one of the other parts of the campaign was to normalize medication use. So they had advertisements where people were depicted taking Valium as a routine of part of their self-care, like taking vitamins or aspirin. Like, don't forget to take taking Valium as a routine of part of their self-care. Like taking vitamins or aspirin, don't forget to take your Valium. That's nuts to me.
Speaker 2:That is crazy.
Speaker 1:They also had catchy slogans and branding for it, with phrases that like take the edge off, relax with Valium, find your balance with Valium. Those were commonly used slogans that they had for it back in the day.
Speaker 2:So goodness Could you imagine being a mother dealing with everything and then you're prescribed this or given this drug and you're like cool, and then I'm assuming they become addicted, Like hey, yeah.
Speaker 1:So all wonder, drugs that fix everything are not that wonderful. As Valium became more widely prescribed, there were concerns that began to emerge about its potential for addiction and abuse. Some patients found themselves dependent on the drug to function, leading to a rise in cases of addiction and abuse. Some patients found themselves dependent on the drug to function, leading to a rise in cases of addiction and withdrawal symptoms. So with prolonged use, the body can develop a tolerance to benzos or benzodiapines, and that leads to physical dependence. This means that individuals may experience withdrawal symptoms if they suddenly stop taking the medication or reduce their dosage. Withdrawal symptoms can include anxiety, agitation, insomnia, sweating, tremors and even seizures in severe cases.
Speaker 2:Goodness. So this mother taking care of her kids, taking care of the house, doing all this stuff, gets addicted to this, and then she realizes she needs to get off of it. And then her life becomes more difficult because not only is she dealing with everything, she's also withdrawing from a pretty heavy drug.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I couldn't even imagine, and I just think, when people take these, it's like these doctors that must suck as the doctor to be like. It's like these doctors that must suck as the doctor to be like oh, this will help your anxiety, this is great, this is great. And then to come back a decade later and be like so it's not as great as we thought.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Ooh, and that's where we are human test subjects. Yeah, ooh.
Speaker 2:I don't like that?
Speaker 1:I know, I know you don't. So they started to see this happening, and, despite the concerns around this, valium continued to be prescribed at staggering rates well into the 1980s. It wasn't until the late 1980s and the early 1900s that the awareness of the risks associated with long-term benzodiapine use began. Benzodiapine, benzodiapine, benzodiapine I am words. Today, benzodiapine use use began to increase, so doctors and regulatory agencies started to exercise more caution when prescribing Valium and other benzos, and alternative treatments for anxiety and insomnia also gained some traction, since they no longer wanted to push Valium. So today, valium remains available by prescription, it has stricter regulations, and there is definitely a greater awareness of its risks. Its legacy as a groundbreaking medication in the treatment of anxiety and related conditions is undeniable, though, but so is the cautionary tale of its unintended consequences. So the history of Valium should serve as a reminder of the complexities of pharmaceutical innovation and the importance of balancing the therapeutic benefits of medication with the potential risks, and that is the story of how Valium came to be Dang.
Speaker 1:I wanted to do this because I've taken Valium, so I was prescribed Valium for quite some time, and it was my anxiety medication. It's like how I start my day very low dose and I quickly began to experience, okay, I need to increase my dose if I'm going to have any type of effects, because I quickly became like this dose no longer works for me. Let me start taking two pills now. Then I had this side effect with it where I would cry. I got to a point where people in my life would know that I was on Valium because I'd be crying. Oh my goodness, yeah, and it wasn't just like a little depression, like a depression cry or something like that. It made me cry. It was weird and I used to take it to help with, like when my manic symptoms got really bad. That like that was supposed to help me. But no, now I'm just crying over anything. So that that was my experience with it and I, if I'm remembering correctly, this was recent because I just changed anxiety medications because of it. So I remember my doctor saying that that was a maybe I don't think that was a common reaction that I had to it the crying but it was so specific to it because we just like the, the variables of the medication I was taking, and it just that's exactly what it was.
Speaker 1:So, oh my gosh, yeah, and I loved Valium. It really does help. It really does help with anxiety. I found it better than taking Xanax as a prescription drug for anxiety. Yeah, xanax would put me to sleep. It makes me a little groggy, makes me just want to hug everybody, so that's not one that I go after these days. But yeah, I really liked Valium at first because I liked the way that it made me feel, but once I got more dependent on it, needed more, and then I started crying. It got weird. It got weird so I got curious about it and that's how this story came to be.
Speaker 2:Wow, I've never tried it, I don't know. It always has had a negative connotation when I hear Valium. So that's interesting. Yeah, sometimes it's like you got to do what you got to do, but then you also have to be able to live your life. So it's always that balance of like can this medication let me live the life I want to, or is it going to like, yeah, really mess me up mentally, physically, emotionally?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but my mood's more stable. Which one's better? Well, if you're pulling over on the side of the road to puke up your medication every time you take it, maybe that's not going to help.
Speaker 2:It's just like, and I've been there.
Speaker 1:That's happened to me too. That's a real thing. It's just like God damn it. I can't take this. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, but it's not worth it. It's not worth the well. Like my lifestyle. I'm puking all over the place. Who wants that?
Speaker 2:I don't know, maybe somebody, not me, though. But yeah, that is exactly it. It's like okay, what works for you, and each person is different, which makes every medication a nightmare and every treatment plan a nightmare.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. And then it's interesting how yet we all can fall into buckets. You could fall into a depression bucket and you all have stuff similar, but it's so different, it's so different. It's like here's a Zoloft for you and for you, and for you, but maybe that'll only work for one out of four people that you give it to. I wish we could just see into our brains by now and just know this shit. I wish we could just scan it and be like here's this level here. We need a little bit more of this. What's that vitamin D? Let's get that up in there.
Speaker 1:We need some B like dopamine. Oh, that's a little slow. Let's like put up that receptor.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, it sounds like you're at a cafeteria and you're just like okay, I want more meatloaf and some pizza. We can see our brains, but you have to see like the thoughts, you have to see like the chemicals, I know, because like some of this stuff, it sucks Isn't just the chemicals. It's like the way you're thinking is messing with other stuff and it's like what the heck is this.
Speaker 1:That's a really good segue into the next portion, Gosh crushing it today.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, take it away.
Speaker 1:Kelly, take it away, take it. Well, take it away, kelly, take it away, take it away. Take it away now. Now is the portion of our podcast where my beloved co-host Kimberly, and I are reading a book called how to Do the Work by Dr Nicola Pera. In every podcast, we go over a chapter together, and we definitely encourage you to join us as we do that, and today's chapter is chapter six. We will be talking about do you?
Speaker 2:want to start us off, kelly, with uh, that point you wanted to make. I've been looking forward to it this whole time.
Speaker 1:I think we need to warm up to it before I can make it because we got to talk about the power the power of the belief first. Okay, let's see.
Speaker 2:Okay. So this chapter about core beliefs. Basically a core belief is the story about ourselves, relationships, past, future and like the things we kind of tell ourselves based on our lived experiences, so kind of everything around us. Everything we do, the decisions we make, the relationships we have affect our core beliefs. For example, I'm not sure if this was in the book, but it's like oh, nobody ever picks me at kickball. I must not be worthy for friendship or something like that. That can become a core belief where you begin to believe okay, I'm not worthy of friendship because nobody picks me and nobody wants me on their team. That's an example. Not everybody like that, that's just one person's thing. Somebody else might be like okay, nobody picked me because I'm freaking fantastic. Like, and I'm too good at kickball Changes person to person. But that's what a core belief is.
Speaker 2:A belief is a practice, thought grounded in lived experience. These beliefs are created over time. It doesn't just happen once. That thought might come into your head during kickball, but then you know you don't get chosen for a group project, your coworkers don't take you to drinks, you know, and you begin to believe I am not worthy of friendship. Core belief because you see these things and you first thought this and then you find quote unquote facts to back it up and I really like that. She said these are the filters that are placed over the lens of how we view the world. So you go into the world and if you have this lens of I'm not worthy of friendship, then you might be like. Anything anybody does to you is because they're like they're not worthy of friendship. Why even bother with them?
Speaker 1:And you also don't get to see, because you have that film on. You don't get to see all the neutral interactions that you've had throughout the day or any of the positive interactions that happen throughout the day, because that self-belief, negative bias is just there and that's all that. That trumps everything else. That's like everyone always remembers the negative over the positive.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, this can affect who you are, can affect your self-esteem, can affect your personality, because that is, it's like the filter filters everything else out, so it only collects things that support your core belief, which isn't good, because people might be like, hey, do you want to go, you know, to this baseball game, baseball game and you're like, well, I'm not worthy of friendship, so they might just want me there to make fun of me or you know whatever it is. But it's all filtered, so you don't necessarily see things for what they are. And that's not to say that all core beliefs are bad, but it like this is where, like more toxic thoughts or beliefs come in. Do you have any core beliefs? I mean, yeah, a freaking million. I'm trying to work through them. Man, it's so hard Because I actually funny.
Speaker 2:I talked to my therapist yesterday and I talked to her about how it's hard for me because, like she says, core beliefs are our deepest perceptions about our identity. They were installed in our subconscious, often before the age of seven. It's not that I don't remember my childhood, like she says in the book, but it's just like I have a hard time finding like traumas in my past that might've created beliefs or core beliefs. So I'm trying to do kind of what you asked like okay, what's my core belief? And then where did that kind of come from? Or what created that Cause? Like I guess now I'm trying to think of one.
Speaker 2:So I had really bad anxiety, like performance anxiety when I was younger, like stage fright kind of. Well, it's interesting because I did for certain things like later, like in middle school, but in elementary school I didn't. So it's weird. But like one of my core beliefs was I'm going to mess this up, I'm going to make a fool of myself. Like one of my core beliefs was I'm going to mess this up, I'm going to make a fool of myself, I can't do this. Everybody's looking at me, you know that kind of thing. And obviously that wasn't true. I was in a middle school band. Half the people were probably asleep.
Speaker 1:Without us an oboe player. Ladies and gentlemen, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Champion, oboe player. Just kidding, there is no champion, but I don't know. It was just like and sometimes I mean I still kind of, or something like that. And it's funny because that's kind of ebbed and flowed in my life because I was in forensics in high school so I kind of had to do that for this club. So I think there have been things throughout my life where this core belief did take like a backseat. But then I think that filter became stronger and I started to like reinforce that, Like she says, confirmation of bias, that if the information does not conform to your beliefs, it's ignored in favor of information that does.
Speaker 2:And that's where it's like okay, so like this core belief gets built back up, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like oh, that feeds this, that belongs here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how about you? Did you think of any core belief when you were reading this? I?
Speaker 1:did, but then because she wrote it that you know those are usually developed in childhood I have a core belief that comes from my adulthood. So I was like I have one that's real deep in my psyche from like living, living my whole life, but not when I was younger. I mean, there's gotta be. I think my thing here, that my point that I wanted to bring up earlier, is I think I have a core belief that I'm not good at math. That's why I got excited. But then I got really into this conversation so my excitement went down but I'm like, oh wait, yeah, we're at this point now, yeah. So I find myself to this day still hiding behind that, saying like, oh no, no, I'm just bad at math.
Speaker 1:But the reality is I took a lot of math courses and I got a lot of good grades. I just needed a little bit more assistance. I just needed a tutor so I could learn one-on-one versus learning in a classroom. But even that happening, I still felt bad at math. It's like here's your A plus, you did the work to get this, you understood the assignment, but because I had to have a teacher come to my house to tutor me, it's just like, no, I'm bad at math. And then there's I mean every instance that comes along that involves a dollar sign in front of it. I just immediately blank out. I'm just like, ah fuck, that's money. We're done. I don't know what that is. Don't put that in front of me. I did not take finance. I don't care Accounting. What is that? It's out my ass. I do not understand it. I can barely budget my own self. But we won't talk about my money problems. They're not problems, they're just bipolar.
Speaker 2:See, it's funny because when you say that, that makes me think it's not necessarily and I don't know your core beliefs, but it makes me think it's not necessarily math. Your core belief is just, you are not worthy of success because, like, you worked hard for that grade but you're like, no, it's not my success, like or I wasn't worthy of that success, or something like that yeah.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, because I feel like I mean, at least maybe I'm projecting, because I know I have that where it's like Project on me, baby, that sounds weird Coming from the vomit. It's like projectile vomit all over me. Please, please don't. But it's interesting to see why things affect us and how they affect us with these core beliefs where, like you said, even now, with math, it's like, oh, I go to the grocery store and it's like three apples for a dollar and it's like how many for four apples, you know, like whatever. It's like yeah, and you almost freeze up and you're just like whatever. I'm not going to deal with this, and it's. It's hard to acknowledge that, hey, I might be good at math. Why don't I feel good at math and challenge that? And I actually talked to once again my therapist. Have I mentioned that yet? My therapist that I saw yesterday?
Speaker 1:She is a big part of the show today. Yeah, really Shout out to Kimberly's therapist what's up, what's up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't tell her about this because I didn't want her to judge me. So, yeah, I didn't tell her about this because I didn't want her to judge me. So that should probably be discussed in therapy.
Speaker 1:But here we are.
Speaker 2:That could be our core belief of that performance? Yeah, honestly that might be, but we were talking about how it's kind of scary to actually put in the work and actually look at these core beliefs, because it can become who you are, like, your personality, how you deal with life, all these things, and to have to kind of tear that apart is very scary. Like you might uncover trauma that, like you didn't know was there. Okay, that's, that's terrifying and then, on top of it there's.
Speaker 2:So for me, I always think of my anxiety as like who I am, like part of me. I talk about my anxiety Like it's almost, as my therapist said, she's like you almost wear it as a badge of honor and I think I have. I've almost used it as an excuse, or that it's part of me that I just have to live with excuse or that it's part of me that I just have to live with. And my therapist is telling me she's like Kimberly, it's not. And granted, she did say there are certain people where it's like chemical imbalances and whatever. But for me it's been mainly just the way I behave and how I talk to myself. And now she's like anxiety is something that happens to you. It's not like who you are, which is terrifying, because it's like okay, well then, who am I without anxiety? Like are people gonna hate being around me? Will I have to put up more boundaries? Like it's terrifying. I know that feeling.
Speaker 1:It's overwhelming sometimes yeah, I know exactly what you mean by that. It's kind of like, in a way, like once you're first of all, it's not going to ever be ripped from you like right away. It's going to be a slow process that you get, so by the time it's gone, one day you're just going to be like, well, shit, it's gone. I didn't get anxiety when I went to the grocery store. Like what, like you don't realize until you're without it and then you feel, damn good, I mean, I've like in situations I've been before, it's like well, well, shit, like this is what I've always wanted, like this is great, like, and then you feel different and more capable. But then it's actually, what are you going to do with that capableness? What are you going to do with that now that it's not there as a crutch or to wear as a badge or to identify with? Like that's yeah, yeah, it's not your identity, kimberly, you're. You know you're Kimberly, not anxiety. Hi, I'm anxiety. No, you're Kimberly.
Speaker 2:But it's so hard because it's like I've used it as an excuse or, like you said, a crutch where it's like, well, that's my anxiety, I had a bad day because of my anxiety, and it's so easy to just push it off on that and then it's like, okay, but what are you doing to like not have anxiety or like take care of yourself more? And it's like, well, crap, nothing Like anxiety is just who I am, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just my as my operational state. You're telling me that if I ate like a well-balanced breakfast, I'd probably be okay by now, if I got eight hours of sleep at night. What right are these studies? Are they out there? Or all these like basics of just human like? Living yeah yeah, yeah, there's a lot in here yeah, there was.
Speaker 2:I think she begins to touch on, like, the childhood, like where we get core beliefs and how they come about in our childhood.
Speaker 1:It's it's hard to think back that far, I've never tried to, I've never done any like past, like regression or anything like that. Is it regression Like different lives? Yeah, yeah, that's past life regression yeah, that's like a different life. I've never done like normal. Help me remember what's going on. I don't even know what my earliest memory is.
Speaker 2:I mean time to do the work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this was a real. This was a deep chapter, this was a thinking chapter. This was a dig into your psyche. Pull it out. What's it about? Let's talk about it. Chapter. And I think like if both of us were able to identify some core beliefs in ourselves like pretty easily yeah, for better or for worse. Yeah, she has a little bit of a worksheet in here, so I'm sure that would help dig into it more. She also recommends taking your old belief and writing it down and then writing a new belief and then that, essentially, can become your mantra, and now the new belief trumps the old belief.
Speaker 1:I've had a doctor do that with me before. I was doing rapid eye movement therapy and then we had to replace my old beliefs with my new beliefs. So I had to think about the old and then I had to replace it by thinking about the new while my finger followed eyes. Oh, weird, yeah, it is weird. Probably do a story on it one day, because it's a Please do yeah. Yeah, it didn't work for me. Nothing ever does. But what are you going to do?
Speaker 2:Keep trying.
Speaker 1:I know that's all we can do. That's a wrap on this one. I like that chapter. Next week we'll be doing chapter seven, so you can join us while we do that. We really appreciate you listening. We love doing this and we want to keep doing this, so please follow us where you listen, like our podcasts. Rate and review. Again, very appreciated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks so much, everybody. We love to have our listeners here with us learning and growing, because when you're here, you're never alone.
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