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Follow us on Instagram @imnotokkpodcast
Email us at notokkpodcast@gmail.com
We appreciate you!
Hey.
Speaker 2:Welcome to I'm Not OKK, the podcast with the broadcast what I don't know. Man, that was a rough start. Okay, I'm Kimberly Nothing really rhymes with podcast and I'm Kelly Kranz and welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. Yeah, the energy we gave out at the beginning is just going to make the rest of this just a bumpy ride and it's going to be something else. Sometimes it's like that, but that's okay, That'll be all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes it is like that Happy early Donut Day, tomorrow's Donut Day, but when we actually publish this it's going to be after donut day, so belated donut day.
Speaker 2:Thank you for the donut day. You were telling me earlier that you got your donut for donut day today, so you're celebrating a day early. Yes, then donut day, because donut day is just going to be, you know, jam packed people, chaos. Yes.
Speaker 1:Chaos at the donut stores. Well, let me tell you, I went with my partner. I was like, hey, let's get that donut. He's like, well, I might not eat one. And I'm like, okay, well, join me, because otherwise this looks very sad. And I'm like, oh, do you want a donut? He's like I might have a bite of yours. I'm like, okay, I go in there. I get four donuts, because they're like monthly flavors or whatever, and like I was just disappointed by one of them and I'm saving the other one for tomorrow. It's s'mores, so I'm hoping, on actual donut day, to have a delicious donut.
Speaker 2:But if it's not delicious, still a donut you know I'm not a donut person.
Speaker 1:I can't get behind them. You are dead to me.
Speaker 2:I mean it's just like I just can't. And like when they put stuff on them and everyone's like, oh my gosh, like this person, like they have the best donuts and they have this brand and that brand and or not brand. But you know this type and yeah maple bacon and then blueberry cream, blueberry cheesecake and I'm just like these are gross, like it's literally it's just a glazed donut, like with stuff on filling yum yeah, some of it is just yeah, it's just, I don't know, I can't get, I don't like I can't get behind a donut.
Speaker 2:What part? Don't you like all the shit on top.
Speaker 1:Okay, have you ever tried a glazed donut?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can eat like a Krispy Kreme glazed donut all day. Like those are good.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you like donuts. You don't like toppings on donuts.
Speaker 2:No, and I like a cake donut by itself, like it's like kind of it's cakey, those types of donuts.
Speaker 1:Oh, the cake donut is cakey. I love the use of adjectives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the cake donut is cakey. I really like it. I really like how cakey it is, oh my gosh, and how less donut-y it is compared to cakey I don't know. Plus, I worked at the bakery the bakery, obviously, I was always decorating donuts and it just was just like this is just an obscene amount of fucking sugar to put on top of sugar. It was just a lot.
Speaker 1:It's overload, like it was just. It was just a lot it's it's a lot overload and that's why I got four, because I had to try all the flavors. Like I can't believe this. Do you like donut?
Speaker 2:holes. They're all right. They're like I like munchkins. Those are donut holes I mean, but they're branded the? Yeah, I guess. So I'm used to like the glazed donut holes, only I haven't had like the other type of donut holes in a while. What are the other types of donut holes? Like a more like crumbly donut, like cakey donut, like not a glazed donut. We're back to the cakey donut again. This is just too much Like munchkins.
Speaker 2:like when you bite into munchkins, it's like you know it's not airy and fluffy, they're like kind of cakey munchkins.
Speaker 1:that's like you know, not it's not airy and fluffy, they're like kind of cakey. I'm not sure I can handle this conversation. It just makes me, especially the day before donut day. You're killing me. It's too soon, it's too much. It's too soon. Yes, it's too much. I'm just upset now and now it's the fucking truth. It's just how I feel about donuts I think sometimes you need to learn to lie to me, okay.
Speaker 2:I mean people just get so hype and they're like I brought home a dozen donuts from this place and I heard it's the best and blah, blah, blah and I'm just like that's great. I was debating driving an hour and a half for donuts. Yeah, see, and then they would have been no different than the ones you get from your gas station.
Speaker 1:They're different. I went to DC and Astro's Donuts. My friend went to DC and I was like, go to Astro's Donuts. She hasn't gone yet and I'm just like you need to go. Creme brulee donut they have the most unique and they're so pretty. Haven't been there in years.
Speaker 2:I mean, they always sound good, theoretically, like to me, they always sound great. But they just they. They ain't you're missing out. They ain't as good as they say.
Speaker 1:And honestly, I'm judging you a lot for this.
Speaker 2:So it's okay If you judge me.
Speaker 1:Oh, I judge you every day, but for this especially your face, and I could.
Speaker 2:Just your face judges me before you verbally even judge me. Yeah, I try I do not have a poker face. You really don't. Actually, you don't have a poker face. I don't. I have an animated face, but I think I could hide my bullshit. No, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I can hide certain things but, like with you, it's just like I'm wearing disdain on my face, like you need to know it's just like I'm wearing disdain on my face.
Speaker 2:Like you need to know, I am wearing disdain.
Speaker 1:You need to know how I feel about you in this moment Like for real. But anyway, let's get back to life, because talking about donuts even though it is donut day soon, soon we have real world issues. So let's do two degrees, Kelly. Your two degrees was to focus more on yourself. And have you built that fire pit yet?
Speaker 2:No, I really haven't built that fire pit. I really haven't built it. That's going to go on the bottom of the list, I feel like, unless I just randomly get like the spur of action to put it together. But yeah, no, it's still where I left it last time. Bottom of what list? The bottom of the list of things that I want to do but I'm not doing okay what's at the top of the list.
Speaker 1:Make that your two degrees oh, that's a good idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I could do that, and then this is a two degrees. I can go away too. Okay, it's like what's your two packing? Oh, because you went to disney, okay yeah, yeah, I went to disney about a month ago, oh my jesus, mary and joseph no, it was like.
Speaker 2:It was like three weeks ago. Right, yeah, it was about three weeks ago and I haven't. Oh, my Jesus, bang, boom. And then sometimes my dog will get into my laundry and should be like what's this? I'm going to eat it now and I'm going to chew it apart. And then, you know, that's just on me, because I have my clothes on the floor in a box that just say dog, come, take anything out. So so, yeah, that's like that'll be my two degrees.
Speaker 1:I know that sounds super simple to like put away your clothes.
Speaker 2:No, that's what it's supposed to be, or wash your clothes or basically just handle the fucking Disney laundry suitcase situation. I put all the souvenirs up, the important things, the tchotchkes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I have my little.
Speaker 2:I have my little stitched tchotchke here. That's about it. You unpacked that, I unpacked it, I did, I unpacked it. But that'll be my two degrees for this week. The fire pit one day is gonna come out, you know just, I'm just gonna be like guess what, this wasn't even my two degrees, but that fire pit is fucking built. But yeah, nah not right now, not right now, oh okay, well, well, I'm actually.
Speaker 1:What was yours? Mine was going to bed at a decent time and guess what? That went south. I am in bed, but I have been going to bed at like 10 and just not sleeping the greatest. So that one, I think, is still a work in progress. So I'm actually Do you just stare at the wall? No, I have a mask on and I play the TV and I just try and fall asleep. Oh, okay, that's a little insight into Kimberly's world, but I think for my next two degrees, because the sleeping thing is, like I said, a work in progress, I think my next two degrees. I'm going to copy you because I was thinking, as you said, that I was like ha ha ha, that's funny. I'm packing and then I'm like I went on a trip a few weeks ago and I don't have laundry per se, but I have clothes that I didn't wear on the trip that I packed. Those are still in there. I still have the suitcase I used out. That needs to go away, yeah it I used out.
Speaker 1:That needs to go away. That needs to go away. I agree, I think I'm going to copy you. I'm going to do unpacking. Look at us Unpacking. You know what we're physically unpacking and right now we're metaphorically unpacking. We're mentally unpacking and physically unpacking and metaphorically, mentally unpack this shit physically unpacking and metaphorically yeah, all the things.
Speaker 1:Mentally unpack this shit. Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. Was there anything else you wanted to add about Two Degrees? Otherwise, we can jump into my story because I want to talk to you about it, because it's somewhat related to something you've done, if you feel comfortable talking about it, even though, well, well, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:I guess I have to be now, now that you're like well, this story is something you've done, so you're gonna tell it, and then it's gonna be like oh god, well, I'm, that's that time I'm not sure you didn't do this, but like you have knowledge of it, oh so yeah, yeah, let's hop into your story. Then I want to hear, I want to hear about it.
Speaker 1:Lower your expectations. I'm doing basically electroshock therapy, but it's okay. Actually, electroconvulsive therapy is I believe the actual? Yeah, that's, that's the name of it, but I googled electroshock therapy because that's what I thought it to be, because I think of, like people just getting shocked. So do you know what?
Speaker 2:this is Kelly, the convulsion one. No, I'm not familiar with the. I'm not, no.
Speaker 1:Okay, because it's electroconvulsive therapy. It involves sending an electric current through your brain. Okay, mm, hmm, so I know you've mentioned in the past brain stimulation and stuff.
Speaker 2:So that's, why.
Speaker 1:I was kind of like, oh, kelly might actually know some of this or know about this, because this was I've heard of it, but it's basically completely new to me. Because I had the image of like electro the shock therapy being like, okay, you just like shock people while they're awake to like I don't know, realign their brain or something. Yeah, and I'm not sure if you thought or knew differently for this Cause that's what I thought this was.
Speaker 2:I've had done like I'm looking up right now the exact name for it because you know, I don't know the name, I don't know the names of the procedures I get done. I just know the acronyms, because everybody loves an acronym.
Speaker 1:Well, this is ECT.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that one's ECT I've done. It sounds familiar. I've done TMS. So TMS is essentially like if you're resistant to depression medicine, then you'll get approved for this treatment. It's called transcranial magnetic stimulation and it's essentially what they did in my own words is you sit down and they find like this spot on your head, on like the top of your, on the top of your skull, and then they mark it like with a cap and then that's your cap Every time you go there. You put your cap on, like the top of your, on the top of your skull, and then they mark it like with a cap and then that's your cap every time you go there. You put your cap on and then it's like this hair dryer kind of thing. It feels well, it looks like it's just like an arm that comes over and they just like put it on the spot that they mark and the spot goes like every seven seconds. It'll go like and it puts like a electromagnetic wave into your head through that spot and it.
Speaker 2:I think the treatment lasts for nine minutes and it happens, and that happens every seven seconds. I had to go like twice a week for about 20, I want to say like 20, for about 20, I want to say like 20, 28 weeks I went, or, yeah, I went for a while, wasn't it sessions? Like, because you went twice a week? Yeah, sessions, I went twice a week to get it done. Okay, right, yeah, does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yes, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Okay, I think this is and this is just my assumption is it's in a similar family to that, because this reading about it, it's basically, if these other medications haven't worked, or like if other things, other treatment, hasn't worked, you should try this. So it says that this can help with severe symptoms of like depression treatment resistant depression, severe mania, catatonia, agitation and aggression in people with dementia. So a lot of these were like severe things like this isn't. Oh, you're like depression meds didn't work, let's jump to this number two, like this was a okay, this is not. Nothing is really helping. So I think they're similar.
Speaker 2:They sound similar. They sound like they're working on the same problem, but one just might be more intense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm pretty sure this one's more intense because they put you under for this like you're under general anesthesia, so yeah, that's way more intense. Yeah, so real quick sources. I'm using Mayo Clinic and then I'm also doing mindorguk, so ECT, and this is why I have the stigma. It says much of the stigma for ECT is based on when this was happening, like years and years ago. In the first, you know trials of this where high doses of electricity were given without medicine to put people to sleep. So I feel like, basically, you were shocking people to sleep so oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Oh no, it says it led to greater pain fear, anxiety, fractured bones and then other crazy side effects.
Speaker 1:So that's why I think there's that stigma of like oh, shock, like oh, this is just archaic, but that's not where it is.
Speaker 1:So after looking into this it actually kind of flipped my thoughts on it. So basically, the procedure they put you under and then they pass like small electric currents through your brain and it, on purpose, causes a small seizure to happen, which I think that's kind of scary, because I've had I mean, I don't know many people who have a seizure disorder or have had seizures. I have a dog that has had seizures and I know that if you keep having seizures it begins to do not great things to your brain. But maybe that's the disorder, rather than this is more targeted, I don't know, but that still kind of freaked me out. But the reason for the seizure is to kind of change the brain chemistry to improve the symptoms of the mental health disorders. So that's why they do it and once again, like in this day and age it's much safer, there's obviously a lot more regulation around it. They're not just shocking people for the fun of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, not to follow what the FDA says yeah, yeah, exactly, this isn't happening in basements, but to kind of dig more into it. So, like I said, the things that it can help improve those things are what doctors primarily use it for, and I think there's a lot that you have to go through in order to get to this point. Like I said before, it's not just okay, this is the second thing out of the gate. They're also for a lot of these things and I was like oh, what are the long-term effects? Or, you know, does this work? I don't think there's a lot of research out there to give statistically significant results. So keep that in mind with all of this. Like a lot of this is just it's working now or these are the risks we're seeing now. Long-term, I think that's still TBD, But-.
Speaker 2:It's so individualized, I feel like, like it's just there's just like, not like in my search because I'm so I'm resistant to depression medication, and so my quest is currently to find something that will work for me that is not an SSRI. So where was it? What were we talking about? Ect?
Speaker 1:ECT.
Speaker 2:And then where was my point gone? Oh, like long-term risks or benefits.
Speaker 1:Oh, I said about people. Oh, we love that. That's my train of thought, just leaving. We love when that happens.
Speaker 2:That just goes right off the rails.
Speaker 2:That's something that we're not going to cut out, we're going to leave that in. Y'all need to experience that part of me. Okay, my brain can be mush sometimes. So, yeah, I just think like so, in my experience, in my journey of looking for stuff, I've, like you know, there's always the statistics, as you said, as you were saying like this doesn't work for like one third of people. And then I'm like, okay, what are the odds? Okay, well, the odds are I'm one third of people. That that doesn't work for.
Speaker 2:So let's go to something else and, like you know, I'm trying and I'm trying another treatment now and it's funny because my doctor he's even him he's just like we don't. There's studies and it's FDA approved and this and that, but we don't know how it's specifically going to affect me. It's not a blanket treatment. It's like, yeah, some people this, this, it works really well for some people have to come back in and get some maintenance and it's like but he's looking at me like dead in the eye and he's like I don't know how it's going to affect you and he's like you know.
Speaker 2:he's like well, we're going to go through the treatment and monitor it and everything. And he's like but we'll see. So, yeah, yeah, I think it's hard to get those statistics because everybody's all over the place, falls in a bunch of different buckets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's like is there an interaction between two treatments? That happened and that's why this effect? But even beyond that, I think, because it's more of a last resort and there isn't a lot of history, once again, they don't have a lot of data on this, I believe from what I've read. So the risks associated with this. So you can be confused after you come out of this for like a few minutes some hours after, but normally it's just like general confusion and then you kind of get over it and you're no longer confused, like you're back in the day to day. Normally doesn't last long. However, there can be some memory loss. Some people have said they forget stuff that happened right before they got this treatment. Or they say some people have trouble remembering events in the weeks or months or even years before treatment. So there is the possibility for memory loss, which is terrifying for me and I guess it's called this is called retrograde amnesia, but like just the thing is what?
Speaker 2:I thought you were going to be like. This is called like retrograde mercury, Like we're entering the retrograde, like I thought first thing if we were going.
Speaker 1:I was about to be like pull it back, where are we going? Yeah, could you imagine if I just was like and and the moon's in jupiter.
Speaker 2:So that's why this isn't happening you'd be like I don't know who you are, I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1:I don't need it. Yeah, did you just get this treatment? What is happening? Jaw pain, muscle aches and those are like treatable with meds, but still that sucks, and then there's always medical complications that could happen.
Speaker 1:So, like the anesthetic, like that could you know be a medical complication, heart rate, blood pressure, those kinds of things. So I think the biggest thing for this is like memory loss, confusion. But you have to go through a lot for this. It's not just like, hey, doctor, can I try this please? They look at your medical history physical exam, mental health assessment which I'm like what are they looking for there? Like no, just believe I'm crazy. Like believe, how do I prove to you I'm?
Speaker 2:depressed Like, yeah, this sheet of paper is gonna do it. Yeah, I'm depressed. Yeah, this sheet of paper is going to do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like okay, but then like blood tests and all those things. So you know, that's how you kind of get in there, the actual procedure you go under. They briefly look you over, put an electrocardiogram on your chest, electro phallogram placed on your head which monitors brainwave activity, the elect so, like the electrocardiogram managers, heart, electro electrence phallogram, jesus mary, they're like they'reGs right EEGs and EKG.
Speaker 2:Ecg Sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to monitor your heart and your brain. And then there's electropads placed on your head and it's these are about the size of a silver dollar and you can either do. It can be unilateral, where they only focus on one area of your brain, or bilateral, so both sides of your brain receive the electric currents. But that's what's like giving off the currents, which is freaky, like I just I think as a well, I'm not a doctor, but if I was a doctor, as a doctor, yeah, I know Like what am I saying, but I'd be scared to like, I know, not a doctor.
Speaker 2:But if I was a doctor, as a doctor, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:Like what am I saying? But I'd be scared to like I know this is a treatment to help, but it's like you take that, do no harm thing, that oath, and you're just like shocking people. I don't know, maybe that's just me. So the only like you don't actually physically seize. I mean you're under, you know anesthesia and you have muscle paralysis so you like obviously aren't aware you're having a seizure and even the doctor the only thing that they see is like maybe some hand movements or foot movements. So it's really just your brain you shouldn't have to deal with. Like you know you seizing everywhere. So I mean that's good, seizing everywhere. So I mean that's seizing everywhere. Where am I going?
Speaker 2:I read something flopping off the table, seizing everywhere there were some things.
Speaker 1:There is like risks, like physical, like you could fracture a leg, like in the olden days. It's just just like what? Yeah, because you were seizing everywhere. But then that's done, go into a recovery area. They wake you up all that good stuff. So in theory you're just asleep and then you might wake up kind of confused.
Speaker 2:So the treatment is they put you under they do. Is it a set of shocks or is it just like one? They put you under they do. Is it a set of shocks or is it just like one? They do shocks until you start seizing no-transcript.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure I understand your question.
Speaker 2:They just like, do they just do one like, and then the person seizes, or they have to do a few to get to the seizure, like the goal is to get to the seizure right.
Speaker 1:I don't think that's the goal. I think that's like a thing that happens. Because, so the goal is to pass electric currents through your brain, through these like silver dollar things. That produces the seizure, because your brain's just like I mean, I don't know how brains work. All of this is really just like some noob talking about like brain science.
Speaker 2:I love it Brain science one-on-one. Most basic level.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm just like the little electric thing, but yeah, so that makes your brain like not scramble, but just like, oh, like it gets freaked out a little and that causes the seizure in your brain. But I think it works to like change the chemistry in there, because it's like whoa, this is new, you know, that's my version of it.
Speaker 2:That's what the brain is saying. That's what it's saying.
Speaker 1:Probably so. Yeah, that's the procedure. Do you have to get this done multiple times, Just like you said? They said people begin to notice their symptoms getting better after about six treatments.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:So full improvement may take longer, but it doesn't always work for everybody.
Speaker 1:They're comparing this to like an antidepressant that takes like six weeks to kind of you know get in your system and, like you know, figure that out where this is like okay, six treatments, and I didn't see how close together you can get the treatments, but then it's also okay, it might take longer if you want to fully improve. This is what gets me. It says no one knows for certain how this helps treat severe depression and other mental illness. What is known, though, is that brain chemistry changes during and after seizure activity, so that's where it's kind of like do they have the long-term research on this? I don't necessarily know, but they do know that seizures change your brain. So, yeah, that's where it's still kind of freaks me out, because I like things where it's like I'd like to see the studies please. I would like 10,000 people to have tried this before me and it was successful, you know.
Speaker 2:It's so hard with the brain, though, when it comes to some of these things.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:Because you can't see it. You can't like it's just like this anomaly, like even my doctor like when I was with him yesterday, it was just like so why'd you get into this field? Because there's just such such a particular service, that like treatment that they offer. I'm like, so how'd you get into this? And he's like, and he's like honestly, and he's like the brain is the most fascinating thing, and he's like you just don't fully understand it. And it's just like a constant, like hypothesis, whatever he said in his like scientific doctor words and I was just like okay, like he was like super passionate about it, which was just because I was like I could open up a center like this, like I want to do this, oh no you have to become a doctor and do all these things.
Speaker 1:I was like nah okay, but that is so true. It's just like we don't know. It's like you know how they say space, the next frontier, or like the ocean we don't know, a vast majority what's in the ocean.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like the brain, like we don't know what's how things are working yeah, and isn't there like a whole section of our brain that just we just doesn't light up and we just don't know what it does like? Isn't there like, like it, like it, like there's brain matter that, like you know, when they like look at it and like you can?
Speaker 2:see things light up in your brain. Yeah, like there's talking about. I think there's parts of our brain that are there, but we don't know what they're doing. I don't know what I'm saying anymore. There's parts of the brain that we don't understand. How about that? That's what I'm trying to fucking say.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't. I'm not sure that's a hundred percent true. Are you thinking where that they're like? Oh, we only use 10% of our brain like that thing yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not true, yeah.
Speaker 1:They used to think like the gray matter on top of our brain or something was all we used, but like. That's not true. I don't think that's what I think. I was told in a psych class or something I don't know.
Speaker 2:We'll go with you then, but that's that's what the point I was going off of is. Yeah, so you're going off of a false fact.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, okay. That's basically the basis of this podcast is us Googling things and our own experience and just being shocked by what we find. So I honestly just imagine, like right now, as I'm thinking about my brain, I just imagine like a mouse in a wheel, like just wanting cheese. You know, like that's just keeping me going. That's the thing in my brain.
Speaker 2:That's what's going on in your brain, like that's a mouse in a wheel waiting for cheese.
Speaker 1:Well, like he's running, you know, like to get the gears going. It's that mouse, you know, but that's just me anyway. So, to finish off, even after like, if you do this, do the treatments you're getting so much better, You'll still need ongoing depression treatment to prevent it from coming back, so you can get this less often. But you might also go on antidepressants. You know, do talk therapy, you might do traditional depression things too. I think this is just to like get you out of that slump, so like the other treatments could potentially start working, and I think it's interesting that it like could still come back. So like your brain chemistry can get all you know garbled up, but then it can still go back to where it was, or does it get garbled in a new way? To go back to depression, I would just think pattern.
Speaker 2:Your brain is just known to pattern.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's true.
Speaker 2:Something for so long. It's just like that's what I would think. You're trying to disrupt that pattern in your brain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like a seizure. So you have an etch-a-sketch oh, I do, metaphorically have an etch-a-sketch and, like you know, oh, I do, and metaphorically, and you know how, sometimes like you get like black dots or whatever. Yeah, they weren't erased, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's depression and like you can shake the etch-a-sketch, you know that's kind of the garble, but then, like you still have the etch-a-sketch and it's still there did your therapist give you this metaphor?
Speaker 2:because mine's done this one with me before. Mine's done an Etch-a-Sketch metaphor with me before I should be a therapist Honestly. I have the best metaphors.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so that's my story. I thought it was really interesting because I didn't know a lot about this and that was really cool to read about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's a big stigma on it too. Yeah, cool to read about. Yeah, and there's a big stigma on it too. Yeah, people like saying like, can you believe that? They still do that? It's like, honestly, I believe it like, yes, people are looking desperately for solutions and, yes, if they find something works, yeah, preach.
Speaker 1:I mean, sometimes it's like these people are suffering greatly, like they're willing to try it. It's just for me myself that would really scare me, because if something goes wrong but-.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very intense. It's very intense, very cool. I didn't know about convulsion therapy, so yeah, that was interesting. The more you know, the more I know.
Speaker 1:When I'm on Kimberly's show, what's good, let's tackle the last chapter in this book. Let's finish it off. I know we're at the last chapter already?
Speaker 2:Actually, it was a long time. Was it Our last chapter in the book of how to Do the Work by Dr Nicole Lepera? Chapter 13. Chapter 13. Chapter 13. It's called Interdependence.
Speaker 1:And we're also going to cover the epilogue as well. I actually follow her on Instagram and get some of these little nuggets of wisdom on Instagram, which helps. It's nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, I will kick it off, Kick it kick it, kick it, kick it.
Speaker 1:I'll be the kicker for this team. What I got from this chapter was just kind of summing up the rest of the book and how you're never done with, like development, with growth, with working through these things for interdependence the name of the chapter. She says it's a state of authenticity and connectedness that is the ultimate testament to the power of holistic healing. So she's saying, like all the work we're doing throughout all these chapters and all the things she's mentioned, is leading up to this moment to embody oneness, taking us back back back to a state of pure awareness and connectedness with all that is. So we're basically connecting to ourselves, which I think this is, like you know, the highest level of, like the purest form of who we are, like minus all the, you know, toxic thoughts, bad influences, like all this stuff. So this is I don't know if it's like perfection of that version, like this is what we go towards as interdependence or if there's a scale of interdependence. But, as I say that, I don't think we should be judging where we are in our interdependence journey.
Speaker 2:We'll keep that to ourselves in our own judgmental brain.
Speaker 1:Really, I'll just assume I'm better than you.
Speaker 2:That's fine, go for it, I dare you.
Speaker 1:But just a lot of this was. It felt like she was talking about you know. So that's what we're striving for. We're striving for growth, but we're also striving for connection with each other.
Speaker 1:She mentions her self-healer community, which she's mentioned throughout the book, and just how connection is inherent in the human condition. Without it we can't survive, and I know we talked about solitary confinement previously, where it is like we need that connection, and so even this was interesting. Loneliness increases the rates of autoimmune diseases and chronic illnesses and many of the same ways that trauma does.
Speaker 2:It's so it's because we're such social creatures, we're such social beings and, like even the most introverted of us, still have like gosh. I used to video game with this guy spammy, that's the nickname, his username, so you call each other by your usernames when you're a gamer.
Speaker 2:I know his name is spammy, it was spammer, I spammer, I warrior you know, god bless like that yeah god bless, so I'd call him spammy, and he was so like anti-social-esque, like he wouldn't talk on party chats or anything, and eventually I played with him so much I used to get him to talk to me one-on-one and I found out all about his life. And it was just the loneliest, loneliest thing ever.
Speaker 2:But like I, like he, when he actually started talking to me, like you could just hear, like oh, this is a social human being, like this is somebody like you know who you're like. Oh, this is a social human being, this is somebody who can engage socially. And I was just like sometimes you don't even know that you need it until you have it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because from the moment he started actually talking to me, every time I was online he was in a party chat with me and he was like hello, kelly. And I was like, oh, that's so cute, like so, and I just like I just I was hearing how alone he was and he was like no, no, I like it, I like it, I like it and I was like all right, like you know. And then there's me. I'm like give me your address, like I want to send you things. Like you know, I'll send you so creepy. I know, I know it's so creepy, right, it's like. And he's like no, I'm never doing that, I'm never telling you where I live, like okay, but I just want to send you cupcakes I baked.
Speaker 1:That's even creepier. You're like did you notice my hair is in that? Well, I did. You're eating me.
Speaker 2:There was someone else I used to play video games with and I was working at the library and they were like hey, do you think you can make me cupcakes sometime? And I was like yeah, and he's like, all right, well, here's my address. And Venmoed me some money and then I sent it to them and then he was like he like got like the delivery and he was like on a chat with everybody like trying everything.
Speaker 1:Who do you talk to? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Just leave it to me, leave it to me to go on PlayStation and find people that like are actually just. I mean, now they're all socially inept, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean when you're on video games. I think a lot of people that's their outlet.
Speaker 2:It is yeah, so they don't necessarily. You find a lot of introverts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and it's easier to talk to people when you're not face to face, like when you're there's an yeah. Yeah so that's a unique story, isn't?
Speaker 2:it, you're all Kelly.
Speaker 1:Thank you. No, okay, okay, this is a super random side note. So there was this. I saw this in the news cause I'm I'm watching news now, but I think there was some guy who, like you, said spammy. That's the connection here. Is this guy Like he got pulled out for TSAsa because he had like 40 pounds of spam in his suitcase? And the guy was like I'm so embarrassed, like blah blah blah. I was and I didn't read the article, I just read the headline. So it might have been like some you know crap article, but I was like what the?
Speaker 2:my first thought that would spam with them anywhere. My first thought is that this man thought spam could save him or something and he needed it. Like some type of like ocd situation, like clearly, unless it or unless he's completely normal, and someone was just like they don't have the type of spam that I like down here. Can you bring me up spam? He's like, yeah, I'll pack a whole bag of spam to bring up since it's so cheap, because that's like yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 1:I could see that. Okay, now I need to like check on this gosh, I'm pretty sure it was spam. What if I just misread scam as?
Speaker 2:spam. I'd say that makes about that. That sounds like right, based on everything that's going on in your life. You don't have time to read the correct words. It's just like your brain's just like fuck it. Why are you reading this word? We don't have time to keep like this, like spam.
Speaker 1:No, no, we have other things. Oh my gosh, if I find it, I'll I'll let you know. Anyway, back to the book.
Speaker 2:back to the book. But that's wait. My thing, my example, kind of ties into the power of community. So we had a whole video game community and, yeah, research shows that three out of every five Americans feel alone. So our little. We had a tribe, tribal living she talks about in there.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to say I had a tribe on on the playstation wherever you can find it, as long as it's healthy, I think yeah, what works for one might not work for the other yeah, I don't think mine would have worked for you.
Speaker 2:You would have been like what the fuck am I doing?
Speaker 1:I would have been in there I've been like no, I'm not freaking making you donuts. Why did you give me your donuts cupcakes? Why did you give me or donuts cupcakes? Why did you give me your address? Like bye, Like this is creepy, I never want to talk to you again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and then I moved in with one of them, of course, you freaking did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like your cupcakes are so good, let's be roommates. And you're like okay, I guess this is happening now. You have lived an interesting life I'm living an interesting life.
Speaker 2:I'll say, I will say but right around loneliness.
Speaker 1:there's the book by dr vivic murthy, who was the surgeon general of us under president obama, and biden wrote a book together the healing power of human connection in a under President Obama, and Biden wrote a book Together the Healing Power of Human Connection in a Sometimes Lonely World, and he says loneliness is associated with an increased risk of heart disease, dementia, depression, anxiety, sleep disturbances and even premature death.
Speaker 2:I don't like premature death.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. Just from connection and then, going along with the connection, dr Nicole Lepero from the book says to experience authentic relationships, you need to work on being one with your own authenticity. So it's like, okay, you need to have these connections, but you also need to be authentic in order to like, really like. If I was fake to you and I was just like this is me, but it's not me, we wouldn't be here.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't, I would not be friends with you and you would not be friends with me. Maybe this is fake me, just kidding I couldn't fake it this long, and you're so good, you deserve an award.
Speaker 1:Okay, honestly, I deserve award anyway. But yeah, it's just like okay, then that's not an authentic connection. Then it's just like Okay, then that's not an authentic connection. Then it's just like okay, you need those authentic connections. I always think it's just so fascinating how we, as humans, like you, cannot function alone. You need your community, you need that support, and it's just I kind of love that.
Speaker 2:Even if you're an introvert, it's like, yeah, and like being an introvert, do you ever like so? For me it it's like, you know, my, my friend, like invited me to go to the beach this weekend and you know, I'm like I want to stay inside, like I don't want to go to the beach, and then, yeah, I went and spent the whole day there and I just at the end of it, I was just like that felt so good just to be out, just sitting, talking like, yes, playing games, like just that just felt good and it like feeds my there's that saying again feeds my soul but it feeds my soul it is it.
Speaker 2:I need to stop saying it. I don't want to say it, I don't want to say it anymore. But yeah, yeah, no, it's it. Just it actually does pay attention to it in your brain. You could actually feel the effects of it. I think so.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I could feel the effects of it whenever I talk to my mom about like I don't want to do that, I don't want to go, I don't want to meet up with them, she's like you'll be happy you did. And in many cases it is like it's like those memes where it's like you when you're making the plans and then like you when you actually have to like do the plans. And it's like the first one's like yes, let's do that, let's meet up. And then actually having to do the plans, you're like no, like I meant bad, I don't want to do any of that. Yeah, but once again to your point, it's worth it because you it's almost like you have to overcome laziness to a certain degree to like actually get out of your house. But then if you have an authentic connection with somebody, it's like no, I'm comfortable with this person. This person gives me energy, like I always say it's do they drain my battery or do they like give me battery juices? That sounds weird, I meant that metaphorical way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, See, if you didn't say anything about it I would have just let it go. But now you brought out that you said battery juices.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like I don't know how to say that Give me charge.
Speaker 2:I, I like it's like the offending liquids battery don't even please, please, don't make that the episode title.
Speaker 1:I won't, no, but it's like that's where these authentic connections are so important, because it's like some people just drain you and I I'm just thinking about, like I love my, but they can charge me to a certain point, and then it's like I need alone time now, like I need to kind of come back to center. I don't want drama, I don't want stress, I don't want your opinions, I need to kind of come back to my comfort zone. So it's like you need that balance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look at us, same wavelength. Oh my God, our balanced wavelength.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's either that us Same wavelength oh, my God, our balanced wavelength. Yeah, it's either that or we're sharing the same brain cell, but yeah, so that's what I really got out of that. And then epilogue was just. I mean, I didn't get a ton from the epilogue, but the one thing I highlighted that I really loved what she said is this is what this work is all about the empowerment of being able to choose.
Speaker 1:And I think that's so important, where it's like she says, we can choose how we treat our body, how we show up in relationships, how we create a reality is an envision, our futures, like we are, have that option to choose and we feel the empowerment that there are options, not just one way to do it or one way to be. That kind of summed up the book. For me it felt good like taking care of myself so that I can live the life I want and the life that I choose to have. I'm not sure if you had any final thoughts about the book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree with you.
Speaker 1:My little yeah. Yeah, I gave a real shit.
Speaker 2:I love the book and I think that message that you just said. She's kind of just like hey, I just taught you all these tools, or I just put all these tools in front of you about things that you can do and understand now, and now you just understand that you are in control of it, like you can take that control. Yeah, but I like where she says here she ends the book saying that none of us can see the future. We have our intuition, we have our self-trust, we have our emotions, information that can help us make the best choices possible. So it's just kind of like we have to rely on ourselves and trust ourselves.
Speaker 2:Which is scary, yeah, because a lot of this is all self-work. Everything in here is doing the work yourself, like taking your self-healing journey as she describes it Doing the work.
Speaker 1:Yes, how to do the work. How to do?
Speaker 2:the work, so I liked it. It, uh very hands-on. It was a lot more hands on than I expected it to be and it's challenging. It was a challenging book, not a challenging read, but like challenging in the sense that the book itself is challenging you to think differently and do things differently gives you the prompts, the journals to like help you work through some of this stuff.
Speaker 1:But some of this, like it, brings up stuff that you might not want to handle.
Speaker 2:So that's why I I'd like to reread this and kind of maybe take more notes or do more journals or whatever, just because the first go around, I'm like I'm not sure it's sticking, so yeah yeah, yeah, I did some of the journal or the activities at the end of the chapters, and some chapters I didn't Because some I just was like I had those answers in my head, but still, you're supposed to write them out. Yeah, I know, because writing.
Speaker 1:doesn't writing use a different part of the brain or something? Here we go back to brains.
Speaker 2:It's almost like it's the thing that like everything else revolves around when you're talking about mental health. Hey, so, yeah, so that was the book how to do the work by dr nicola para, the holistic psychologist. So yeah, round of applause us.
Speaker 1:I'm going to eat a donut to celebrate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, four donuts for donut day.
Speaker 1:And they're going to leave one for the actual day.
Speaker 2:So did you want to tell them?
Speaker 1:what our next book is. Oh my gosh, because I picked this one, so you pick the next one, all right.
Speaker 2:So the book I picked for us to do next is Unfuck your Brain by Faith G Harper, and the book is about using science to get over anxiety, depression, anger, freakouts and triggers, and I think everyone who's listening can relate to something that I just said. So that's the book that we'll be doing next. So that's the book that we'll be doing next. If you want to get it, you can read along with us or you can just listen to us talk about it, which is, you know, probably just as interesting, probably just as great. So, yeah, we're going to start that next week. We're excited about that, and it's actually a book I've wanted to read for a long time. Obviously, the title is very engaging. Like from afar, like you could see it, the word fuck isn't actually typed out, but I mean, when you're Googling it, that's what you would type in, but it has, like, what do you call them? They're not called pound signs anymore.
Speaker 1:What are they?
Speaker 2:called Hashtags, hashtags it has a hashtag in it.
Speaker 1:I know what you mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, that's how people can tell our age, right there. Just let them know what's a pound Side press pound on the phone.
Speaker 1:I'm the same age.
Speaker 2:What is that? What is that? Don't wrap up the cord when you hang it up.
Speaker 1:Okay so yeah, that's our podcast. Wow, what a way to end, kelly, did you like it?
Speaker 2:did you like our podcast?
Speaker 1:wow, what if I was just like no kind of garbage, really okay you're a great host.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy. I love hanging out with you. I love the connection we share so we do, we share such an authentic connection, yeah, and guess what, Guess what Kelly?
Speaker 2:When you're here, you're never alone. But before that, follow us on Instagram at I'm Not OKK Podcast. You could also email us at notokkpodcast at gmailcom, and in the description of our episodes you'll see a link to text us your two degrees. You can click that link and you could send us your two degrees. Write up something that you're currently working on for yourself and we'll share that over the podcast. We've already gotten a few of them coming in, so we'll start to share them next week. You could also just email your two degrees to notokkpodcasts at gmailcom if you want to at gmailcom if you want to.
Speaker 1:And like Kimberly said, remember when you're here you're never alone. Bye.