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Follow us on Instagram @imnotokkpodcast
Email us at notokkpodcast@gmail.com
We appreciate you!
Welcome to. I'm Not Okay K.
Speaker 2:I'm Kimberly and I'm Kelly Kranz, and we're excited to have you with us.
Speaker 1:It's like a talk show format.
Speaker 2:Now Take a seat, yeah.
Speaker 1:Look under your chair. It's nothing. It's sadness. You get sadness, you get sadness. Everybody gets sadness.
Speaker 2:No take it away, take it away, I'll take away, take it away. I'll take away the sadness. I'll take away the sadness thank you, yeah so now I have all the sadness. Thanks so much, kelly uh-huh, yeah, you can handle it oh yeah, I'm sure I can sadness pro.
Speaker 1:That's, that's sad. I should add that to my resume.
Speaker 2:Yeah, should add these types of things to our resumes. I mean the true battles, the real wins.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can consistently work with a mental illness. Shows up to work with a smile on her face, regardless of what's happening in life.
Speaker 2:That's actually valuable that's actually valuable.
Speaker 1:It's super valuable, like we'll bring you joy at the expense of her own anxiety and miserable life yeah, I mean, as long as your health insurance covers my therapy, we're all good, because I'm working through that in therapy.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What am I?
Speaker 1:going to do? I want to do this.
Speaker 2:Snaps, snaps. You know, like a poetry thing. I was gonna say a golf tournament. Nobody snaps the snaps at a golf tournament.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, do you know?
Speaker 2:sports. I know sports probably as much as you do.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's a boldface lie, because I know a lot about sports.
Speaker 2:So I probably know a lot. Then too. Okay, who's your football team?
Speaker 1:Well, I don't have one, because Okay, well, minus a million, because football is, you know, america's sport. Any baseball team? Hockey, soccer what's happening? Who's Any baseball team? Hockey Soccer what's happening? Who's your baseball team? The Milwaukee Brewers, you're so Midwest, yeah, I am. I'm proud of my home state, excuse me, you're so. Midwest. Oh wow, I'm happy and polite, to people.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, I'm happy and polite to people, all of these are compliments. Meanwhile, you're the most sarcastic thing ever. Oh wow, I'm happy and polite to people and as you're saying that, you're saying it so sarcastically, but I'm also nice, I know you.
Speaker 1:But to strangers, like, okay, so I was outside gardening prior to this Bonus points for me and Walter, my dog was on a leash in the yard and this woman comes up, this older woman, and she's like hi, can I give your dog a biscuit? And I'm like, of course, and I talked to her a little and she's so sweet because she brings biscuits around on her walk, gives them to all the dogs in honor of her dog that passed. I think she just does it every time she walks. Anyway, talked to her and like, had a nice conversation and got to get to know my neighbor, like, oh, I'm sorry that I'm a good person who communicates with other people and treats them like human beings. If that makes me Midwest, you know, then guilty is charged I'm happy you guys know your neighbor more yeah, I don't know her name though yeah, she knows my
Speaker 2:dog's name that's usually how it goes with like dog type people, like people who love the dogs. They know the dog's name before they know the owner's name. So, like, introduce you by this is Josie's mom. It's like okay.
Speaker 1:I'd rather be known as, like Walter's mom, there is at my old apartment building there was this woman who we would both be walking our dogs. Her dog's name was Blarney, because it was an irish like hound, but like a smaller one like reddish hair anyway.
Speaker 2:Oh, I really wish we could do an irish accent and say that name right now no, I'm not even gonna try.
Speaker 1:I will offend so many people, but I want it.
Speaker 2:I get hurt in my head like blarney yeah, yeah, it's like, it's like sorry, no, don't, no, no, no but she would only talk to my dog like she would like talk to me through my dog.
Speaker 1:It was the strangest thing, but I also kind of loved it because we never talked like to each other. So it was like weirdly great. I was, oh yeah, walter's having a great day. And she's like oh, walter, oh, do you want to play Blah, blah, blah? I'm like okay.
Speaker 2:I'm fine, walter, tell your mom I really like her jacket.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's just such an easier way to communicate with people. I'll talk to your dog about you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dogs and cigarettes are good icebreakers when you're just outside.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but one's healthier than the other? Yeah, definitely. We do not encourage any type of smoking or anything here.
Speaker 2:Just in personal experience. I've had a dog, have a dog that bites people that I can't make friends with. Other dog owners have smoked cigarettes and have made many friends standing outside with a cigarette. Yeah but once again, a cigarette doesn't bite people Unhealthy habit.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe you know what they say. When a dog is like you know, ruckus or makes a ruckus or whatever, it's because the owner needs to be trained. I don't want to put this all on you, but honestly, it's you. It's you.
Speaker 2:I think all of my pets take up different parts of my personalities. And Effie, my dog, is like the don't fuck with me part. I'm docile and cute and cuddly, but like leave me alone part.
Speaker 1:Well, she probably feeds off of what you're giving her. Yeah, and that is not healthy she hates to cuddle.
Speaker 2:So it's really not true, because all I want to do is cuddle her, and I'll try and cuddle her and she'll just go run away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's too much love. I think your dog's like you need to find a friend that isn't me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, there's three other animals. That's why I have three other. Oh, and you're volunteering yourself as well.
Speaker 1:No, I'm not. I'm too far away from you. Please don't get any ideas.
Speaker 2:Don't get any, so how is your two degrees?
Speaker 1:I'm so glad you asked, kelly, because it's terrible. Literally had a pudding and cheese and crackers right before this, so I haven't been eating meals. I think that was more like a 10 degree situation. I think I need to lower my expectations. I don't know, I can't even think of my next two degrees, but I'm lowering it. I'm lowering it a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that one was too much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was too much for me. I don't know. Do you know your two degrees, or how was your two degrees? I need you to give me some ideas.
Speaker 2:Well, mine's been terrible. Mine was to not like fall asleep on the new couch and I've fallen at. This new couch has been here for almost a week and I've fallen asleep on it almost every night.
Speaker 1:So Okay, so both of us are failing at the two degrees.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, okay, yeah there.
Speaker 1:So maybe we need to like something easier for us. One step forward, that isn't a large leap, do you know?
Speaker 2:your two degrees. For what? What do you mean? Your next two degrees, like, what are you going to do? I still want it to be the not fall asleep on the couch thing, not fall asleep on the couch thing. So I think what I'll change there is more of an action. So I'll do two degrees to take, say, the tablet into bed with me past 11 PM.
Speaker 1:You won't take your tablet.
Speaker 2:I will take my tablet so I get off the couch and not watching tv on the couch. I'll take it, my tablet, and watch tv in bed after 11 pm and then I could fall asleep, passed out in bed okay, so your two degrees is just the tablet. Taking your tablet to your yes yeah, my two degrees is that it's like more yeah it's it's an action now, or it's it's becoming a smart goal, as they say in business don't even start.
Speaker 1:I don't want to talk about smart goals. You know what a smart goal is like being healthy and okay or not?
Speaker 2:I didn't know which way we were going with it. I thought I didn't know if we were gonna riff on smart goals or if we were gonna do like a real, like you know, you were doing something real.
Speaker 1:I thought we were I mean I wasn't doing something real. I was just saying like an actual smart goal would be like to like become healthier people, like with actual attainable goals, but no two degrees for us. Well, that didn't really help me, so so thanks for nothing.
Speaker 2:I was going to say. You did say, like in your first one, that you were going to be more mindful with Walter and things like that and just kind of like be in the moment and more present. Like you know, you can go, you can go back there.
Speaker 1:I don't think I can, because now I'm stressing about Walter, because I'm thinking about his age and now I'm like are his joints having issues? Like I'm too conscious about Walter, like it's not great as soon as you're cuddling him.
Speaker 2:It turns into a full exam. Like what is this? Is this a sign of arthritis?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I just get anxious and I spiral, so it's not, it's not the greatest. Okay, what can I do? Beep, beep, boop. I'm trying to think of something that I don't usually do. That would be helpful.
Speaker 2:but that isn't 10 degrees again why don't you listen to binaural beats? Doing what like? Why would I listen to it? Like, whenever you're like about to take a nap, you could put on one for like, but I shouldn't be napping, but you are, so why don't you put on something that'll help you while you're napping?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:But thanks.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll let you have it. Thanks for that suggestion. What is it? What is it going to be?
Speaker 1:Okay, Kelly, why are you putting me on the spot like this? Like my gosh? You know what. This is actually kind of hard, but I should do it even though it shouldn't be hard. I shouldn't check my email after 10 o'clock. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't check your email. She checks her email. So much people it's an addiction?
Speaker 1:You should not.
Speaker 2:You get to turn it off. Turn off the notifications on your phone after 10. So they stop. Yeah, I used to have my email on a timeline that it was only active during the workday, like after that leave me the fuck alone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I think? I'm going to write that down. That is my two degrees. Is I'm going to set up Boundary. Yeah, like a lack of notifications, yeah, during a certain time period. Give yourself a nice boundary, honey. I just I freaking love checking my email. It's so bad I don't even get that many emails, but it's like, oh, I got to be on top of it, somebody needs me. And it's like nothing I do in my life is do or die.
Speaker 2:Like, call me if it's do or die, and meanwhile I see emails come in. I'm like ugh, ugh ugh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have like a million unread emails yeah.
Speaker 2:I know it's terrifying, I should just give you my phone for a day and you'll have a blast. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:I would like I think I mentioned this to you before, where it's I read online. Somebody was like yeah, my friend, who's a coworker, came back from like a week vacation. In her inbox she did select all and deleted and she's like, if they need me, they'll email me again. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that is the person I strive to become, like dang the boundaries, but yeah, also the boundaries, Yep Also.
Speaker 2:She might not have survived at that business much longer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know that's also true.
Speaker 2:We do not suggest doing that, but still, you know, yeah, so you ready to listen to me give you some story?
Speaker 1:time. I'm so ready to listen to you. It's insane.
Speaker 2:Okay, hit it, I've got a good one today, something that I've always kind of been fascinated with. So today I'll be covering the mental health story of one of the greatest leaders in the 20th century, and that is Sir Winston Churchill. Churchill Round of applause. So a little bit about Winston Churchill.
Speaker 2:He was born into privilege at Blindham Palace on November 30th 1874. His early years were marked by a profound sense of neglect from his parents, which were Lord Randolph Churchill and an American heiress, jenny Jerome. So it was his nanny, mrs Everest, who provided the warmth and affection that Winston needed as a young boy and that laid the foundation for his resilience in later years. Despite that, as he grew up, he was actually struggling academically. He wasn't a strong academic in his classes, but he found his calling in the military. After attending Sandhurst, which is a military type of academy, he embarked on a series of daring adventures, serving in conflicts across the British Empire, from India to Sudan and the Second Boer War. I looked up the Boer War it was basically a bunch of different factions fighting at one time.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it was a war Like a war.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a war and he fought in it, and this is not a war podcast, so I did not retain that information. But these experiences not only shaped his worldview, but they also earned him very early fame for his bravery and his audacity in his military career. But this man had more to him. He wanted to get into politics. So he transitioned into politics in 1900 as a conservative member of parliament. He quickly established himself as a formidable figure on the political landscape. His tenure saw him navigate the complexities of international relations and domestic policy with all of the skill and tenacity that they believe he had learned in the military and had acquired just from observing. However, it was during World War II, and that is how we all know, or we know.
Speaker 2:Winston Churchill is famous from World War II, but it was during World War II where his leadership truly shone and he blossomed In 1940, as Britain faced its darkest hour against the looming threat of Nazi Germany. Churchill rose to the occasion, assuming the role of prime minister. His resolute demeanor and stirring speeches they galvanized the nation and they earned him a place in history as one of the greatest leaders of all time.
Speaker 2:So he was able to rally his nation, become prime minister in a time of deep despair and get the people's hopes up. Like we're not going down, we're not yelling timber. You better move, winston. Churchill starts singing Kesha. That's his speech.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a remix that's his speech.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a remix. So this is the part about Winston Churchill that I love and that I have a lot of admiration for. Behind the facade of strength was a man grappling with a lot of inner demons. Churchill battles with bipolar disorder and his was characterized by periods of intense depression and manic energy. They were well-documented. He famously referred to his depressive episodes as his black dog, a metaphor for the debilitating darkness that consumed him at times. Oh, but dogs don't do that. Dogs don't do that Called it his black dog, and I just I have something very similar. I actually labeled my depressive like when the episode is about to come over you, you know. I gave it a label. Like he has the black dog, I call mine the shit storm.
Speaker 1:Yours seems more apropos. Black dog just sounds like a comfy puppy that wants to lay with you.
Speaker 2:Exactly. It shows up and it's comfy and wants to lay with you.
Speaker 1:And then you don't get out of bed for like six months because of the black dog.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then it makes you happy because you're cuddling with your dog. No man, you can't cuddle with your dog during a war. Yeah, you can.
Speaker 2:Not if you're trying for your country to win, sweetie, but that was his metaphor for the debilitating darkness that consumed him at times. But despite the stigma surrounding mental illness, during the time which is not today, it was, you know, in the 1940s there was a huge stigma on mental illness he was remarkably open about his struggles. He found solace in unwavering support of his wife, Clementine Adorable name, Clementine Clementine Churchill and he channeled his turbulent emotions into creative outlets such as painting and writing. Interestingly enough, Churchill's bouts with depression often coincided with periods of heightened realism and empathy, qualities that served him well in times of crisis. His ability to see the world with clarity, even in the depths of despair, allowed him to navigate the complexities of the war in diplomacy with unparalleled insight. So it's kind of like leveraging his depressive episodes in some type of like. He's learning from them and then applying them to what's going on in real life, which is not a perspective a lot of people have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's productive. Just have to go back quick. Did you say diplomacy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely probably said something wrong. Is it diplomacy? It's diplomacy. Today we're doing diplomacy.
Speaker 1:Okay, I just wanted to call you out to you know make you feel bad for a minute. I felt bad for time Kalano, kalano.
Speaker 2:Kalano, kalano, kalano. How do you spell colonel Kalano?
Speaker 1:Like baloney Balogna. Good heaven, yeah, knife.
Speaker 2:Anyway, sorry, knife, knife, yes, we could keep going. Yeah, that's actually a fun game. That's like a game you could play when you're driving. Whatever the words that we're saying, it's the entire.
Speaker 1:English language. You're right, but anyway it's complicated.
Speaker 2:Churchill, our man Churchill.
Speaker 2:So throughout his political career, his battles with bipolar disorder ebb and flow as they do, and they influence his decision-making and his leadership style in profound ways, like I was just mentioning before.
Speaker 2:So his depressive episodes they gave him the sense of empathy. And then, conversely, his manic phases, which were characterized by heightened energy and productivity. Those propelled him to new heights of creativity and innovation. So, during that frenzied activity state, his intellect and imagination knew no bounds. So that allowed him to produce an astonishing body of work that would shape the course of history, I'd imagine. That allowed him to have thought out battle plans, like you need to have creativity when you do those types of things, like in how you're going to fight the war, which again is using his bipolar episode to his advantage, and when it says that his astonishing body of work would shape the course of history. Well, his manic episodes were marked by the bursts of productivity and creativity. So, far from being hindered by the condition, he harnessed that energy to drive his work forward and produced an impressive body of literature, alongside his duties of prime minister, I'm talking. He wrote a staggering 43 books throughout his lifetime.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:In my research I read that when he wouldn't be able to sleep at night, he would harness that energy and he would write, he would paint and he would write.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh Could you imagine if I harnessed all the energy that my mental health gives me or doesn't give me. Oh my gosh. I could change the world, but I'm going to take a nap.
Speaker 2:I could change the world. But I'm going to take a nap. I like that Episode title. See, there's plenty of nights I can't sleep and I have energy and I just sit there and I just let it rattle around in my brain and my bones I don't get up and the fact that you could use it. So I just I'm jealous. I'm just I'm jealous Because I know that, I know what it's like when I'm not medicated and I can and I have this feeling and I know how I could leverage it. And God, when it works, it fucking works. But it's a double-edged sword. It is a double-edged sword.
Speaker 1:Do you know if Churchill was on any medication?
Speaker 2:No, he was not. Not in any of the research that came up did I find that he was on any medication for this, completely unmedicated Wow. Interesting. I don't know if they even had. They didn't even have like an official. I don't even think it was in a ds, the dsm back then, but um I don't even have a dsm back then yeah, so they wouldn't have known how to treat it. It was just documented and it was our.
Speaker 1:It's our historians today that believe it was bipolar okay that he had I've heard that before where it's like all the symptoms are there but it just like wasn't diagnosed. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I did read that there was a doctor that did officially diagnose it. But then there was also like conflicting research that said, like you know, he was just diagnosed with maybe depression, but today we think it was bipolar instead of that Interesting, yeah. So I read conflicting reviews on that, but we're going with the fact that he was diagnosed with bipolar back in the day, considering he knew about his black dog and he would leverage his ups and his downs he seemed a little well, well aware of.
Speaker 2:Uh, yes, yeah, so yeah he authored 43 books and guess what that came with he money, of course, he accepted the 1953 Nobel Prize in Literature, dang. So in the end, churchill's story is one of resilience, it's one of courage and it's triumph over adversity. Despite the challenges posed by his mental health, he remains steadfast in his pursuit of excellence, leaving a mark on history as a leader, a statesman and a visionary. For me, when I think about Winston Churchill, I like to draw on that inspiration because, knowing even in our darkest moments there's potential for greatness, like just that glimmer of hope yeah, he leaves me with that. So that is the story of Winston Churchill and his mental health journey, as he was one of the greatest leaders of the 20th century and he had bipolar. That's interesting. I didn't know that. What were the sources? Yeah, I was just thank you. Yeah, so sources for today's story was the International Bipolar Foundation, america's National Churchill Museum, historic UK and Churchill Archive Center.
Speaker 1:Do you ever think about how it must suck to be these people's siblings? Like the Pope has siblings. Could you imagine being like oh yeah, my brother's the Pope. How can you ever live up to that stuff? I just think with Winston Churchill, it's like cool, you ran a country and you wrote a ton of books and got this prize and blah, blah, blah. If he had any siblings, it's just like, oh cool, I'm a banker, oh God, I'm a banker. And the fact that he also had like mental illness, and it's like prick. Yeah, what am I doing?
Speaker 2:yeah, you know, and he used it like a superpower and I just there's, I just really believe I'm. The more that I deal with my bipolar, the more I'm thinking it can be leveraged as a superpower rather than seen as something that is debilitating in my life. I just need to really be self-aware and understand when the waves are coming and what is a wave, and not get lost in it. Years, years of practice, years of practice to go into this, but no, it's very important to stay medicated.
Speaker 1:Got to start somewhere.
Speaker 2:I mean some of this stuff.
Speaker 1:You can overcome. Chemical imbalances maybe not, but there are certain things or pieces of mental illness, like, for example, there was a time when I didn't take a nap every day and it was fantastic. And now I've like sunk it into, you know, the anxiety or the depression, and I mean that part kind of sucks, but like, kind of like you said like using it as a superpower rather than like what is it called? Not an achilles heel, what is it called for? Super, super, they're, they're kryptonite.
Speaker 2:Kryptonite yeah, yeah, yeah. So you got it right before me. That really excited me. I love it. I love when you do nerd stuff.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's okay. But yeah, like the one thing that I always think about is like I found, kind of found out I was an empath cause, like I take on other people's emotions and I didn't know that was like an actual thing that, like people you know, whatever and it became so overwhelming because I had no boundaries for it.
Speaker 1:So I would like take on other people's issues or stress or whatever, and I'm like this could actually be extremely beneficial if I, you know, have boundaries where I don't take on people's stuff, but then when somebody is going through something hard, I can get what they're feeling and help them and be supportive. So it is like harnessing that, like you said, where it's like these things right now, maybe it's because it's like right now we have a puppy, like our mental situation is a puppy and we're letting it just play and destroy everything and pee on the carpet. And it's like we got to train this puppy. Because if we want to live in existence with this puppy and have a good time, like we got to train it and right now we're too tired to train it, but it's like, okay, if we start to slowly let it out, you know, give it treats, you know whatever that we can have a dog that we're excited to play with and bring out in public. But yeah.
Speaker 2:And not a black dog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not a black dog. Well, it could be a black dog.
Speaker 2:I was referencing the story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I know. I just didn't want to be discriminatory against black dogs, because black dogs are cute too. I think black dogs are the least likely to get adopted in rescues, so adopt black dogs Same with cats. Black cats are the least to get adopted, and I got a black cat. I got a black cat. My family's got a bad luck what see?
Speaker 2:you're part of the problem. What are you talking about?
Speaker 1:okay, honestly cats can just live and do whatever.
Speaker 2:Adopt a dog before a cat yeah, I'd adopt a cat before I adopt a dog, but I'm a dog cat person, but I'm definitely more of a cat person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you are. I I'm a dog person. Like my partner had a cat at one point and I'm like I guess we could adopt a cat. I've never owned a cat in my life and I'm like, but if we adopt a cat, probably going to be like we should probably adopt two dogs.
Speaker 2:So we do what we can.
Speaker 1:We do what we can. We do what we can well great story kelly fantastic. Thank you, camberly winston churchill exciting stuff. Who would have guessed these important figures in history had mental illness?
Speaker 2:I mean, some of them are narcissists, but not sure that's yeah, that one didn't come up in the research for this one.
Speaker 1:Well, who knows? Okay, let's jump into the book, chapter 8. This is Chapter 8 in how to Do the Work by Dr Nicole LaPera. Ego stories, oh, egos so thoughts. Thoughts Kelly on this chapter.
Speaker 2:I don't know What'd you think.
Speaker 1:Well, to start off, she describes I thought this was just understanding what ego is, because all of us, I think, think we know what an ego is Like. Oh, her ego's so big because she's like high on herself and like full of herself and whatever. And she says the ego is the great protector of the inner child, is the I identity. Anything that follows the word I is an extension of the ego. I'm smart, I'm boring, I'm sexy, I'm frumpy, I'm good, I'm bad. It's our sense of self, our personal identity, our self-worth. So ego isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's how we probably like get out of bed in the morning, like oh, like I'm smart, you know, like who am I? So that's kind of the ego and I thought that was interesting, that it's not necessarily this negative thing. It just is like it's our ego.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So our beliefs on what our ego is or who we feel we are, they are grounded in lived experiences. So things like I got an A on a test, I'm smart Things that actually happened. And the reason we have this ego is to protect our identity at all times and at whatever cost. So in theory, this is great to have something that's like, something that could be supportive of us being smart, being good, you know, whatever. But on the flip side, it could also be negative, where it's like I have no worth, I'm bad, nobody likes me. And because our ego is so defensive, we want to protect what we believe. So it's hard to be like oh, I'm bad. And even if good things are happening to you, your ego might be like no, I'm protecting you because you don't want to be uncomfortable in thinking something different than your ego.
Speaker 1:I thought that was really interesting because it's like we almost fight ourselves on who we are.
Speaker 1:We almost have to flip the script on what we've told ourselves we are. It's almost like when you're like I'm a good person, I'm a good person, and then somebody calls you out for being mean, or that wasn't very nice to say that, or whatever, and you have to have this coming to Jesus moment where a lot of people don't but it's like, oh no, that person's just being a jerk to me and calling me out because they're mean, whatever. And you have to have that moment where it's like, no, that was kind of mean to say, and like it's this uncomfortable feeling of, oh crap, like I've been mean to somebody, you know, like somebody doesn't like me, I was a bully to somebody, you know all these things that probably aren't a part of our ego, but it's like we almost have to acknowledge it because we did do it. And if we don't acknowledge it, then we'll always think we're good, so anything we do would be considered good, even though it's not. So.
Speaker 1:It is interesting how rigid our ego can be, and I think that's where it gets the bad name, where it's like, oh, your ego is so big because you're just so enwrapped in thinking you're great and you're sexy and fun and gorgeous and whatever, and it's like, okay, maybe you are all those things, but you can also be mean sometimes. You know, the ego is wild, yeah, that's what I was saying?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's just Were you even yeah to me? Yeah, yeah, that's what that was my comment about it oh, oh, that was it that was the whole. You just summed up chapter eight.
Speaker 1:You're like, the ego is wild.
Speaker 2:I'm commenting on what you just said. God, you're defensive today I am.
Speaker 1:I'm defending my ego. You are you to me. That's why the ego is so defensive and fear-based.
Speaker 2:It views everything within consciousness. You're staunchy. You're staunchy, attached to its opinions. The ego interprets any disagreement or criticism as a direct threat to our very existence. Jeez.
Speaker 1:One thing I thought was interesting. She's like when our ego is activated, everything is personal. Yeah, One thing I thought was interesting she's like when our ego is activated, everything is personal, as in the egocentric state in childhood when everything was about us. So, like everything that happens to you, we assume it happens because of you. And then she goes on to say it's why so many people are obsessed with pleasing or impressing others, and it's a significant part of the reason we feel stuck. It's like you want people to like you, because if somebody doesn't like you, it's because of who you are and like well, that's your opinion and that can stick with the ego.
Speaker 2:And then, and then the ego keeps us living in that familiar narrative because, even if it can be painful, it's predictable, like that's yeah, like that's fascinating to me, that's just like that's. Like hey, I'm gonna keep you stuck. Like that's literally, I'm gonna keep you stuck because this is safe, even though it sucks, like we know what, what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's that safety. It's like it's insane how much our body has been, what our body and mind has been wired to protect us. Like these things aren't just coming out of, you know, the walls because, like it's fun to like, oh, it's fun to, you know, have an ego, or like let's make this more difficult. It's like like, oh, it's fun to have an ego or like let's make this more difficult. It's like all these things our bodies and minds do is to protect us. But sometimes, if you had that trauma or you had whatever in your life, it gets a little off kilter and that's when things begin to happen that may not make you the most healthy or the most you can be, because it is off kilter.
Speaker 1:And that's where I mean. That was kind of a random tangent, but it's interesting how our body is wired to keep us alive, keep us surviving, keeping us moving forward, and how sometimes it just shoots us in the foot, where it's like, oh, like cool, you're trying to keep me alive, but now I'm like suffering greatly from this.
Speaker 2:There's too much fucking going on. There's no lions and tigers and bears trying to eat us. It's it's confused.
Speaker 1:That's true, it's true.
Speaker 2:It's confused. It's like I don't know what this is. Let's not go outside anymore. We're going to stay. Is confused. It's like I don't know what this is. Let's not go outside anymore.
Speaker 1:We're going to stay inside.
Speaker 2:Like fuck that we don't know what that is. Like this is not safe. I took you to that coffee shop once it burnt your tongue. We're not going back. That is not safe. We're going to pretend.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's almost like the are just completely, completely, just not in tune with their ego whatsoever, and then that can come off as like false confidence, aka like people call it narcissism or, like you know, bravado, as she said or like yeah, and things are black and white, there's no gray area. Like you lose all compassion, like it's just like if your ego is running you, like it could run you in a bad way. I've seen it run that way. It don't look good. It's not a good look.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, that's absolutely true. But some people like, if you don't acknowledge it, it's almost like, okay, does it exist? For those people? It tests who you are and most people don't want to take a look in the mirror and say, wow, I'm sometimes a shitty person.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I'm a jerk. We're all fucking shitty people, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, sometimes, and I think, yeah, some people all the time, but most of us it's just, you know, a blip in time hopefully, but it's like we want to have this like schedule of who we are. Like she says, ego stories come naturally to us because uncertainty is frightening and I think, ultimately, a lot of these things are created so we don't have to deal with that uncertainty or that uncomfortability Just because, okay, if every day we're like, okay, who am I, what's happening? Just trying to figure this stuff out, that's a lot of energy. Where it's like, okay, I'm a good person, I am smart, okay, let me move forward on with my life and like, tackle things that need it. Where, yeah, it's just uncertainty is so scary.
Speaker 1:That's why, in my anxiety, one thing and I think I mentioned this before is control. I like control. Okay, it's hard. Like with my partner, I've had to create boundaries, we've had many conversations about it. I like control. It's hard. With my partner I've had to create boundaries, we've had many conversations about it because I like to control things and when it's not in my control, I get anxiety, I get stressed. I have to overthink, overplan, what could go wrong.
Speaker 2:So you worry, you worry. If you're not in control, you get worries.
Speaker 1:Yes, for me it feels more like anxiety because it's just like what is going to happen. So I mean I'm trying to let go because it's like. I really loved when my therapist said this she's like it's not if something is going to go wrong, it's when she's like this is life, something is going to go wrong, things will happen. So it always felt like I was waiting for the next shoe to drop and she's like no, the shoe will drop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it might not drop the way you thought it would, or whatever, but she's like that's why in therapy or in whatever work you do for mental health and getting better, you're given tools. You're not given like just answers to questions. You're given tools for when that does happen in your life and something hard comes along, you have the tools to deal with it. So you don't need to worry so much. It's funny because a lot of this I'm just on a tangent today Listen to me You're doing good.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:Kimberly's Corner yeah right, this is called Kimberly. Hasn't been to therapy in two weeks.
Speaker 2:Kimberly's corner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's trademark that, Just kidding, no, but it's like the hardest thing I think I run into, and I'm not sure if anybody else. I mean, I'd assume, but I don't want to make assumptions, but it's trusting yourself, A lot of these things. If we trusted ourself, I think it would be a lot easier to move forward in life. Because, at least for me, it's like okay, when I was single, it's like will I find somebody? Will I have a partner? I'm so stressed about this, I'm going to be alone forever.
Speaker 1:It's like trust yourself, You're a good person. If you put out those vibes, you might find somebody. Guess what, If you don't? You're still going to live a great life and you can still achieve goals and live a full life or dealing with hard things that come into your life. If we trusted ourselves and said you know what life might explode in front of me, but I have the skillset to handle it. Okay, great, I trust myself, I can walk into these situations, knowing that, okay, maybe I won't handle it the greatest, but I can handle this and I can keep moving forward and I can learn from it. And then like get better the next time.
Speaker 1:And it's like trusting yourself, but it's so hard to do Cause for me. I'm like I want to control the situation, I want to be able to know what I'm walking into so I can give it my best go. So I don't have any regrets and it's just. It's so hard to rely on yourself and trust yourself, because if something goes wrong, it also is wholly on you and it's like crap. That sucks too, Like owning that failure but not sitting in that failure and like, okay, that was me, I sucked, that was a bad situation, Turned out poorly, Learn from it and move on. Like so much easier said than done, but it's just. It's at least for me. It's all about trusting myself and it's crazy that I I don't trust myself terribly often.
Speaker 2:Well, it's hard, it's hard, it's hard to.
Speaker 2:And you literally just like, brought up a whole other section of this chapter where it's like, okay, you acknowledge that you're, we, all, you know, we know what the ego is. Now we know that the ego is in control for a lot Like it's it's, it's running the fucking show, so how could you trust yourself? So, like the the part of like doing the work to get to that point is to become aware and conscious instead of deferring to our ego's reaction of the world. And that work simply begins by witnessing, because when we exist on autopilot, our ego holds the reins, she says. So actively engaging the conscious minds will help loosen our ego's hold on our daily existence.
Speaker 2:And then I think that leads into what you were saying is like you be able to trust yourself more if you, if you had more of a hold on your reactions, your, you like how you see things, instead of the ego just controlling the situation, being like, no, we're gonna stay safe, we're gonna stay here, you're not fucking moving, this is what we're doing. And like you know, you taking back the reins from the ego and being being able to have trust again because, yeah, yeah, I mean, which is?
Speaker 1:it's, it's a balance. I think of all of it because you also don't want to like just jump into anything being like. I trust myself, I'm gonna join a cult like you know like that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, you know I love so much we need to have like a whole like episode, just like like a whole series of, just like we're doing five cult episodes. Everybody just sit down and shut up. We'll weave mental health into it somehow. But, yes, no, but it's like. It's like it's always a balance.
Speaker 1:It's always such a balance and it's such a delicate balance to like dance, and that's where it's like finding those tools or finding things that work for you or whatever is like so key. Like last week, if music's your thing and you like writing music and singing and that really helps you with your anxiety, fantastic, that might not work for other people, but it's like finding the tools that work for you to kind of settle your mind or, like get into a good place, so you can have these conversations with yourself, be like okay, what do I believe about myself? Who, who?
Speaker 2:am I? Who am I? Another day, another destiny.
Speaker 1:Okay, we can't afford those songs. Kelly, you need to stop.
Speaker 2:I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. We both really like Les Mis and we both can sing that song.
Speaker 1:Okay, stop, stop, stop, no, no, I can't afford that.
Speaker 2:But, but yeah, so it was a good chapter, interesting chapter, yeah it was. And then like, then there's the. Then she goes into steps. She has one, two, three. Where does she have like six, four? Yeah, she's got four steps. Um, I thought that I remembered there being six. Yeah, yeah, but uh, yeah, she has like four steps on getting to know your ego or connecting with it. One is like allowing your ego to introduce itself, having a friendly encounter with your ego, naming your ego and meet the activated ego. So I guess that's that's through the self-witnessing and actually seeing the ego do what it does. So, yeah, I like this. I like this chapter a lot.
Speaker 2:It reminded me of a lot of people that I know a lot I've like literally, like, literally, like people that have been in my life for a long time, like I could see shit like you're. You're still this way that you were 10 years ago, because your ego is is running the show and it's just protecting you and keeping you in this state. And like I'm not even kidding, like I know someone like that for 10 years and I've seen, and like 10 years later you're the same person. And then they're just like, well, there's no such thing as change. And now that I've read this, it's like I have so much compassion Like you just never were able to get out of that state, that state of the ego protecting you and just running your life. And it's just. I hate to say I pity, but I pity the fool. I hate to say I pity but I pity the fool.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, you're going to be that person that buys this book for your friends and you're going to be like, check out chapter eight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why don't you go into chapter eight and see why nothing has changed for the past 10 years and let's do the work? Yeah, but that's the thing with the ego. It's very stubborn. If your subconscious has no insight on it, it's going to be stubborn as fuck and you are going to be a bull, a Taurus. Now this is an astronomy podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, you need to stop saying words.
Speaker 2:Sometimes they just come out my mouth, sometimes they what? They just come out my mouth.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, that sounds like a great place to end this episode.
Speaker 2:Let's end it with things that come out my mouth.
Speaker 1:I think that's safe we just can't have any more words coming out of your mouth. I think that's safe. We just can't have any more words coming out of your mouth.
Speaker 2:No, no more words, but thanks for joining us everybody, please subscribe review like listen, never stop listening, Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, live your life too. Everything's a balance.
Speaker 2:Identify your ego. Let your ego bring you here.
Speaker 1:Live your life, try to be healthy, be a good person, yeah.
Speaker 2:And remember, when you're here, you're never alone.