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Follow us on Instagram @imnotokkpodcast
Email us at notokkpodcast@gmail.com
We appreciate you!
Hi, I'm Kimberly and I'm Kelly, and welcome to the I'm not okay K podcast.
Speaker 2:Huh, welcome, kelly welcome back.
Speaker 1:How are you? I'm doing good today, kimberly. How about? You doing good. Well tells why I. Let's see, I woke up today. I read a little bit of a book I Got. You know I had some purpose today. I had some purpose today so far, and it's still early in the morning, so I feel girl, it's a little noon, your time. It's. It is almost noon my time, but it still feel pretty damn good for you that's not early in the morning I. Well, this early this morning I did all those things.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, I was like okay, that's noon, I was like Literally afternoon, okay, well, good, wow, what a rarity to hear good on this podcast, you know.
Speaker 1:What a rarity and what a rarity. She's rising and she's shining, she's killing it. She's out there. What about you? You know.
Speaker 2:I'm, I'm okay. You know. I'm as the podcast says, I'm okay. Okay, you know. Stop asking questions. Yeah, that's okay. I don't need to get more depressed. Talking about how I am, I feel like everybody asks how are you? It's like if I wanted to tell you I think I would like Just take the okay. Take the fine.
Speaker 1:Take the good, Take that I'm fine, and then get the look when you say I'm fine, and then people just like at you and you're like well, I know you're not fine. And it's like yeah, yeah, you know I'm not fine. I know I'm not fine, but fuck off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you know like, look at my face. This isn't a welcoming face, like please question. It's a quiet face.
Speaker 1:Ladies and gentlemen, it's a gorgeous face.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I need that self-esteem boost, move self-esteem over here. But yeah, it's like okay, please stop talking to me like there's a reason, it's a Social etiquette to keep moving, even if they're like I am garbage trash today. It's like oh, I'm sorry, and then you keep moving on with your life.
Speaker 1:Otherwise, you have to self-isolate and hide, which is what I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I hide from all those people. I got a hide from all the questions, got a hide from all the judgments.
Speaker 2:I had them all the insecurities. That's deep depression and that means that means actual licensed help. So yeah like that please seek a professional, yes, but no same. Yeah, some days it's like oh, I guess my bet is my best friend today, I see mine's a couch. No, I can't do that. My bet is so much more comfortable.
Speaker 1:Really Like. I will retreat into the couch and I will like snuggle up with blankets and that'll be my safe space.
Speaker 2:I Could see that, but for me it's like I've made my bed.
Speaker 1:Very lying it yeah.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like where do you take the best depression naps?
Speaker 1:you know it's like yo, oh that, or that's like literally a question that I got pinged in like one of my little like mental health apps. It was like what, which room do you gravitate towards the most in your house? And I took it as where do I take my depression naps? Which is the living room right on the couch.
Speaker 2:That's legit. I'm like trying to be in the Sun more, because I'm like the Sun makes people happy, right? So I like sit on my little computer. I'm like beep boop, beep boop, beep boop, I'm happy. I'm not, though. Instead, of just getting like a light sensitivity headache. I'm like Is this what the doctor wants?
Speaker 1:Is this what my brain's supposed to feel? You can't go in the Sun yet, though it's too cold by you.
Speaker 2:I'm inside, but I have windows, kelly like do you think I live in a box?
Speaker 1:Okay, now I'm just picturing you like pulling down a window blind and just standing like in the window just to get the Sun. Just just just standing, no purpose, but to get the Sun, because in my mind I'm thinking you're going outside Sitting in a chair.
Speaker 2:No, the rays and I know you're through the window to standing in the windows. Yeah, and just waving at my neighbors, you don't even have to wave that makes it better.
Speaker 1:Don't wait, it just makes it creepier.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's how like they'll start reporting me because I can't our name.
Speaker 1:Our neighbor is not fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's gonna be like me getting carried out of my house in a straight jacket, because they're gonna be like, yeah, we think she's a stalker. Yeah, but what can you do? You know suburbia, right.
Speaker 1:Suburbia, suburbia. I honestly think that's funny, that you take that you use the bed and I use the couch. I wonder what our listeners do if they use the couch more or the? I'm gonna think people use the couch more. But then there's the saying like when you're depressed, you can't get out of bed, I can't get out of couch. Well, you fall asleep on your couch, right, yeah, I can't get out of couch. So, yeah, I'm all things couch like I will be like an arco-lactic, I'll be out there. It'll only be like nine o'clock at night, be watching the show. All of a sudden, like I'm Passed out and then it's three o'clock in the morning and I'm scampering off into bed. Oh well, because, because the couch and it just eats me.
Speaker 1:It wants to suck my soul. It I think it likes that I'm depressed and it feeds off of me. You know there might be more here.
Speaker 2:I think there's more mental illness. Yes, but that's too long a conversation to have, but the couch isn't real.
Speaker 1:The couch is just fine. The couch is a couch. Yeah, I'm actually in the market to buy a new couch, though, girl.
Speaker 2:No, don't get a new couch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, come for your couch one, that one that could be more, you know, accommodating you should get a chair and a half.
Speaker 2:I want one desperately. Oh, those are my nice.
Speaker 1:Those are the best, those are so good. I love them. But we can't fit one in here with the style of furniture that we're going with. And you know, the good old boyfriend wants a lazy boy recliner which is gonna be the eyesore of the living room, so otherwise that's where the chair and a half would go right there and it'd be beautiful.
Speaker 2:You say, for my mental health I need a chair and a half. That's like honestly an excuse for everything for me. I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm depressed. That's where my therapist says there's somewhat of a victim status there and I'm like, you're not wrong, like. I'm using this to my advantage, because I am mostly depressed all the time. There's no other Advantage to this.
Speaker 1:It's not a power I can use for good with this superpower is a way to turn this shit into superpowers.
Speaker 2:No, that's, we'd become a super villain if we turn this into a superpower.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'd be Harley Quinn. And not just because she's like the most like you know More Harley Quinn, not because of that, but just because she's bat shit crazy and you like wild card, like you don't know what she's gonna do next, like I believe she definitely has a little twinge of the bipolar. So I Identify. We should do a whole episode. Who do we? Be, Superhero characters that we think Are suffering from some mental health.
Speaker 2:Probably most of them. Why would they seek, like, adulation from a city full of people you know like? Why did they need this? Why couldn't they solve crime in the? And Anonymously, anonymously, yes. I think it's some type of mental illness, girl I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're right, because nobody is normal. Well and normal, no, my seat, and I've told this to you before. So, like when I talked to my therapist, I'm always like I want to feel the safe, for you know, just very generically, I want to feel normal and and then that means that I'm not normal and I don't like that Stigma on me being like, oh well, I'm not normal, everybody else is normal. And then the thing is like, no, no one's normal.
Speaker 1:We all have our own shit. We're all doing our own thing Like there's. There's no normal really. So what my therapist suggested I do is say I'm a typical. While everybody else might be typical and do typical things like I, I might not do those things. Yeah so I don't know. I like that kind of takes the sting off of the. I'm not normal.
Speaker 2:Well, that's like the I don't like when people say I'm broken or I have a broken brain or something, because it's like, yeah, to a certain degree, but also it's like, okay, you have a unique brain, you have a unique situation, or whatever. I think when we when, like when you say broken, it's like something needs to be fixed and yeah, there are things that like you need to adapt to and that kind of thing, that's like I don't see it as being broken. It's just you know, you got a, you know, like how we learn to walk. You just have to learn to kind of play the cards your dealt, which sucks. Some people have a harder time playing those cards and that sucks but I don't think, I Don't know.
Speaker 2:But that's where I'm just trying to not see it in a negative light either, because the moment you're like, oh, I'm really messed up.
Speaker 1:You're like, well, there's no fixing this, so yeah, and there's so many people that I've come across in my life that feel that way and it's just very sad that they can't see the opportunity to change or they have the mentality it's just change isn't real, nobody can change, like that's not gonna happen and like I'm sitting here like a living embodiment of yo bro, I could change, like I've done this so many times yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah it kind of breaks my heart a little bit well, my therapist, and this was like when we had a coming to Jesus moment, because I Came to her and I'm like I wanna, like I'm, I don't want to sit in this anxiety state for the rest of my life. And she even said she's like yeah, kimberly, the way you talk about this, it sounds like you're Not being a victim, but basically being a. You're a victim to your anxiety. You're always like, oh, my anxiety caused this or made me feel this way, like it's a different entity from me, like it's affecting me, and it's like, no, I Am.
Speaker 2:My anxiety, like you know, it's so, it's like something I can Kind of control to a certain degree. And she's like because, when you see it as like, oh, a victim status, it's not something you can change or grow or, you know, adapt, you're just sitting there taking it where, when you kind of own it, which sucks, because you're like, oh, I'm doing this to myself, you know, but it's like then you have the power to change, which is, it's overwhelming, but it's also a little exciting because it's like, oh, like there's potential that I don't have to live this way forever and that purse kind of nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the light at the end of the tunnel, and death, and death. What is that?
Speaker 2:like don't stress so much, nobody gets out alive anyway.
Speaker 1:I think so. I think that's it. There's a lot of them.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of quotes out there.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of quotes out there, but there's a lot of like quotes that you could find comfort in and it's like it, like the it doesn't matter type of quote, which I find a ton of comfort in, those types of oh, it doesn't matter, the universe is this big and you're this, you're like a tiny little P in comparison. Like that, that shit comforts me. It's like, damn right, I'm a P, damn right, none of this matters.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, that's right, that's right, I just gives a bleak because you're just like oh so I, I literally affect nothing in this universe, like, besides destroying the earth Cool.
Speaker 1:See, that's, that's one way of looking at it. I look at it, I'm like, well, now I just have freedom. Like I have freedom, all these thoughts that I had, everything that has been holding me back. It's just, if I look at it a certain way, that nothing matters in this positive outlook. I don't know really how to describe it, but it makes me feel free. It makes me feel like I could like go of all the ties and all the bullshit that binds me down.
Speaker 2:I'm just real, though. I mean I, I wish I thought that way, because I just think very much. No, nothing matters, I guess I don't matter, I'm not doing anything, I'd love to just be like screw it all.
Speaker 1:You always matter things around. You might not, though. Well, that's sweet. Thanks, I know I'm the sweetest.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, oh sweet candy.
Speaker 1:Yes, candy, but also my story for today. Let's hear it. What's the topic? Okay, so I'm really excited. I'm really excited to tell this story because when I first learned about this, I did not know the history of this human being. I did not know that they struggled with mental health, and I did not know that that is essentially one of the cornerstones of why he is so renowned today.
Speaker 2:At first I thought you were going to talk about Taylor Swift. I'm like, dear god, I am logging off. We know we cannot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so who is it? No, so it is Vincent van Gogh. Is he the guy that cut off his ear? He is the guy that cut off his ear and you didn't think he had mental health issues.
Speaker 1:Well, when I first learned I mean I guess I've always known that fact but I've never really thought about it but when I actually learned about him and it just I don't know the story I just found like I could connect with it just seems very I'm excited to hear this. Yeah, yeah, there's also what was I gonna say? So what inspired this? And I'm just just a quick little. What inspired this story and what got me to love it is I'm a dr who fan. So I was watching an episode of dr who and in time and space, they wind up with Vincent van Gogh and they get to see him. I believe it's right before he passes, I'm not sure, no, I don't know, but they see him, they run into him, they they're the people who buy his one piece of artwork. And that's when I learned About Vincent van Gogh a little bit more and it intrigued my interest. And then I started listening to podcasts and looking up stuff. So so, yeah, I'm gonna hop right into it and we're gonna learn about Vincent.
Speaker 1:So van Gogh was born on March 30th 1853 were going back way back in Zondert, netherlands. His father was a Protestant pastor and his mother was an artist. He was the eldest of six children and showed an early interest in art and nature, which led him to work for an art dealership and, by the age of 27. He decided to become a full-time artist. So a little bit about van Gogh's work. He was a post-impressionist painter known for his emotionally charged and expressive artworks. His style is characterized by bold colors and Fatic brushwork and contoured forms that influence expressionism in modern art. So while his artistry and emotional depth were recognized by some, he faced challenges in gaining widespread Acceptance and appreciation for his unique style while he was alive, despite creating. Now this is crazy despite creating 900 paintings and over 1100 drawings and sketches, he only sold one painting during his career. His mental instability and personal challenges hindered his ability to gain widespread acclaim while he was alive.
Speaker 2:Could you imagine being that one person that bought that painting? The family lineage. They must know that they're the family that, like, got a van Gogh while he was alive. That they're the ones, yeah, or maybe they don't even know and they're just like, oh, this is a van Gogh we've had. Like I don't know, I buy 900 paintings.
Speaker 1:You can't catalog all 900, like there's no way in drawings and illustrations like, but he signs them.
Speaker 2:I'm assuming, we're assuming so like they have to know that they have a van Gogh, but not they might not know there, though it's the one that sold in his lifetime. But I just think about the art I get from, like local art shows. I'm like do I have the next van Gogh and then I look at my art and I'm like, okay, it's like fantastic art, Don't get me wrong. But I'm like I don't think people are hanging this in a museum in the next 100 years.
Speaker 1:This is quite starry night. Yeah, exactly exactly like.
Speaker 2:Like I said, I love the art I have. It's very good, but there's like classic art and then there's the art I like, but Gosh that's crazy.
Speaker 1:How depressing, quite honestly.
Speaker 2:Oh cool, I'm an artist. And then how unfortunate to become rich after you die.
Speaker 1:Yes, to be like that's. That's the part of this story that really gets me is that he lives an infamy now but he never got any of that recognition while he was alive to do his mental health problems and it was just kind of like a stay away from this dude in the village type of thing.
Speaker 2:That's so sad. What year was this again?
Speaker 1:Like 18? This is 1853. Well, 1853. He was born. So quick math. If he's in his, if he's 27, that's good, terrible math. I can't do it.
Speaker 2:Well, I got the gist of when he was alive, so 150 years ago ish. Like that sucks, like not only the environment you're in with, like medicine not being great, it's like also you're trying to leave your creative dream and like, nope, no, life doesn't want you to have that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm gonna read through his range of mental health problems here, but I think a lot of these like fuel that creativity or some type of outlet just to get it out of him, which just like it's like I could just a screaming through his artwork. No, let's say so Van Gogh experienced a range of mental health problems which have been the subject of much speculation and studied by the experts.
Speaker 1:The experts, you know them, you know what they do obviously some of the psychiatric Symptoms that Van Gogh likely experienced included hallucinations, nightmares, insomnia, anxiety, memory loss and physical symptoms like digestive problems, erectile dysfunction, seizures and periods of unresponsiveness. Oh my gosh One, those are just the symptoms. Those. Those aren't even what they consider his diagnoses yet.
Speaker 2:But like I Would hate to go down in history being like, oh, yeah, I have erectile dysfunction. Like, yeah, let's let me everybody know that. Like, oh, I'm a fantastic artist, but I I had a bad gut health and erectile dysfunction.
Speaker 1:I'm like curious about like how they know, yeah, like that is no, I don't think, I don't believe Van Gogh is ever married.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like prostitute, but maybe like doctor, but like imagine your doctor giving away all your like information After you, there is no HIPAA.
Speaker 1:There is no HIPAA back then.
Speaker 2:When you die, hipaa still applies.
Speaker 1:Question mark yeah in the 1800s.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean like now, so like they yeah, now. I'm double checking here, kelly.
Speaker 1:I can't have my therapist. I'm sorry, I have the answers for you. Of course, I know everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like how does that even come up? His doctor is just like, oh, this bitch. Like yeah, his art is crazy because, like Erectile dysfunction, he just wouldn't stand still for hours, or whatever you know. That is like.
Speaker 1:Yes, that day, yeah, that was a thing. He would stand still for hours. Well, it's just like responsiveness. They called it a stupor. Like you'd be in a stupor.
Speaker 2:That's just. It's crazy, though. Like, why, like, why is it being brought to? Like, where did they get this information? I just some of this stuff. It's like what, like, how, like you said, how do you know?
Speaker 1:Have. How do they know? How do they know?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Once again, why would they bring this up like, oh, this Destitute person who create, who has like 900 pieces of art, mind you, why doesn't he have a house? If he has 900 pieces of art, where's he getting his canvases? But whatever, whatever. Then he dies and then his doctor is just like tilt, like Rain even more on his parade. He's like, oh, here's his ailments, this poor guy. Yeah, his art is fantastic, but gosh, where's the like Support from?
Speaker 1:the community. Oh, there's none, oh there is no support in. Van Gogh's community. They wanted to know about this erectile dysfunction. I bet yeah, probably.
Speaker 2:They're like ooh.
Speaker 1:That's why we like down for some tea, like my gosh this poor guy. Yeah, yeah. So his mental health struggles they intensified in his 30s. So he was 27 when he became a painter, so now, going into his 30s, things are getting worse.
Speaker 2:They have to do that.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, they do. I should have known right then and there. So this leads to the infamous incident that you brought up in the beginning, where he cut off his own ear. So he cut off his left ear on December 23rd 1888. Right before Christmas. Yeah, I didn't even put that together. Yeah, right before Christmas.
Speaker 2:Was Christmas that time, Like I don't know how long that has been Christmas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was always December 25th yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I don't know my story.
Speaker 1:There was Mer involved and a manger. You know she liked that. Yeah, so yeah, cut off his left ear. This occurred after a heated argument with his friend, Paul Gagwin. I probably butchered the hell out of that, but Paul Gagwin, which led to Van Gogh acting in utter confusion and distress, Paul Paulie G, his friend Paulie G.
Speaker 1:So this led to Van Gogh acting to complete and utter distress and confusion. Following the altercation, he wrapped his severed ear in paper and presented it to a prostitute in the village. This caused a commotion that ended up involving the police. So after this incident, and with the help of the police, he was hospitalized and treated by Dr Felix Ray. Dr Ray diagnosed him with epilepsy and prescribed potassium bromide, which helped Van Gogh recover from the psychotic state he was in at the time. After that his treatment continued with Dr Peron at the asylum of St Remy, where he experienced several psychotic relapses and amnesia episodes. Despite the challenges he faced, he produced a significant amount of art during his time at St Remy, including the masterpiece Starry Night. He did Starry Night in an asylum Dang. I did not know that that's insane.
Speaker 1:The medical treatment provided to Van Gogh aimed to address his mental health symptoms and stabilize his condition, allowing him to continue creating art and managing his illness as best as possible. So, while an accurate diagnosis for Van Gogh is impossible due to him no longer being alive, researchers have suggested several potential conditions based on his letters, those hospital documents and his artwork, and these include bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, substance use disorder, epilepsy, schizophrenia, manic depressive disorder, metabolic disorder, delirium tremens and even sunstroke. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:It's believed that he lived with a combination of these disorders due to their common co-occurrence. That's crazy. Now, that is a grocery list.
Speaker 2:Yeah of mental illness. Makes sense why you'd cut off your own ear. But could you imagine being the prostitute who received that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, just in the village. She just went up to her, wrapped the ear and just gave it to her. From what I read, there's really not that many more details on it.
Speaker 2:Well, hopefully she didn't perform any services and then he tried to pay with an ear, but I'm assuming she'd see the fact that he's bloody no ear Like there must have been blood running down his face.
Speaker 1:Oh, without a doubt, unless he wrapped it before he went out. Well it says he wrapped the ear in the cloth. He didn't wrap his ear ear, his no longer ear on his head.
Speaker 2:Like what do you do with that? Like if somebody gave you an ear. I mean nowadays it's like okay, put it on ice or whatever, so they can reattach it.
Speaker 1:But is that what you would do? Someone hands you an ear and nowadays you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, give me this. Let me just put it on some ice. I would be like, oh, please, give me your ear.
Speaker 2:But isn't there a thing with like? No, I think that's. I was going to say thumb, like you put it in milk or something, cause that like helps keep it alive. I think that's like teeth or like something weird, but I'd probably go to a hospital and be like. I found this freaking ear Like can you I don't know keep it in your cooler? Like I don't know, I lost my ear.
Speaker 2:I'd want to find it and get it reattached, but hopefully I don't go through that spell. But good grief, and I mean so all these people in like asylums or you know whatever, which I don't think were that great forever ago.
Speaker 1:I mean, they're not even super great now.
Speaker 2:But imagine creating a masterpiece that millions. It costs millions of dollars now, Like millions, I'm assuming. I don't know the actual cost.
Speaker 1:Oh no, and you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2:But like worldwide fame, millions of dollars, and your brain is like on meltdown mode in this asylum and you're making this. Oh my gosh, talk about making lemonade from lemons.
Speaker 1:That's why I just like, when I, when I read that part, that part really gets me like, gets me deep, deep in my gut. It's like he had so much in him that he needed to release like so much. Like 900 paintings, 1100 drawings and sketches Like it. Just that's just sounds so manic to me, just to be getting that out of your system. And honestly, I'm jealous. I'm jealous that like that's such a creative outlet to like. I'm not jealous, I'm jealous of the fact that he could just produce that creativity. While I struggle with it, I struggle with getting things out of me that I would like to get out Like. My bipolar side is super creative, but it's stunted sometimes by, like, different medicines I'm taking, so I don't get the opportunity to express myself like I used to. So when I read this, I'm just like that freedom once again, I mean it comes with a big, big cost when it comes to mental health. But yeah, I don't know, I don't know if any of what I said made sense, but it just gets to me.
Speaker 2:No, no, that makes sense. It's like a beautiful tragedy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like because I love stand up comedy and it's like where all the comedians are like, yeah, I've had trauma in my life, like that's how you know I get up here, I have these jokes. Like you know, a lot of them have trauma or bad history. It's like you need to find your creative outlet, because I think everybody, to a certain degree, has some kind of something they need to work through, some more than others. But it's like, yeah, it's when people find it and they harness it. That's when it becomes like we're saying, a superpower. Where it's like it becomes kind of a superpower. Where it's like I need this, like some people, and I'm jealous of the people who like run and that's how they, like you know, take care of themselves.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh my gosh yeah.
Speaker 2:Like wouldn't that be nice if, like that was the thing that I'm just like? Yes.
Speaker 1:I'm good at it.
Speaker 2:I love it. I mean, while I'm over here, like baking cookies, because I love baking and I'm like cool.
Speaker 2:I'm gaining weight. This isn't healthy for the people around me. Now I have dishes to do that aren't going to get done because I'm depressed and can barely do anything. Like it turns into a mess. But literally it turns into a mess. But yeah, it's like. That is a good point, that it's like yeah, but the thing is so he was able to harness it. That didn't necessarily help him completely. You know that's where it's like okay. It's like okay, so you find your outlet, but you still need to take care of yourself and still need potentially medical intervention. Or there's other therapies now, like CBT and stuff, but All that stuff that wasn't available back then.
Speaker 1:but yeah, he was. The only thing was able was just to be creative. Yeah, and just give the world a gift and then just piece it. Yeah, but that sucks.
Speaker 2:Imagine, I don't know. I'm trying to. I'm looking around me for things that I do and I'm literally seeing just a ton of papers and candy.
Speaker 1:What do I do?
Speaker 2:But like so I love to crochet and imagine I make all these scarves and like they don't sell and I'm mentally ill and then I leave this earth and all my scarves start selling like crazy. Like I, I get no benefit from that, even beyond financial, but it's like there is a certain you know, oh, people appreciate what I do type situation. Like you almost wonder if people saw his art and were like, oh my gosh, this is, this is pretty fantastic that he might have gotten better because people acknowledged his skill set.
Speaker 1:Like if they see the art before the man and they don't know anything about the man. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And like it could also be like okay, if he got money like and he had substance abuse issues, you know that could have not been good, but I just wonder if, if he received any kind of hey, that's good. Like, could you imagine being at the asylum, just like, okay. So one of our patients made this kind of art. People are like holy fric, but nobody bought it. So they're like so were they actually just like? Great, it's another one of Van Gogh's pieces.
Speaker 1:Let's put that in like the crawl space Right, Like like the kids artwork that just goes up on the fucking like yeah, and it's like okay, yeah, look that's a cat, Sure, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's where it, like I think of oh gosh, man, who's? Dali? We're like all this stuff is melting and it's super, you know like you know unique. And it's just like it's okay. For that I could see I could be like okay, like he might have had some mental things going on, like Van Gogh. You look at his art and it's like no, this makes this looks like a starry light, like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, just interesting. Tragically, he died at the age of 37. Okay, by a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:But, I mean, yeah, in all fairness, if you're suffering from that cocktail of no-transcript mental illness, the fact that you cut off your own ear, like I feel like to a certain degree, that's a cry for help, like self harm, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, self harm he did it yeah gosh, that's so sad yeah and, like we were talking about, it was only after his death that his art gained critical recognition, captured the public's imagination as a symbol of misunderstood genius. So his emotionally charged and expressive works became increasingly popular after his death, with his art selling for record breaking amounts at auctions and being featured in exhibitions worldwide. And that is the story of Vincent Van Gogh.
Speaker 2:That's crazy, that's so insane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wish that there was. I'm sure there is plenty more information on it too, like if we really really dig, but I just really I don't know. The story inspires me, this man inspires me. I find people who suffer from something and are still able to accomplish something, whether it's a feat in war or it's like starry night. I just find that amazing like you were able to do that, because sometimes I feel like I can't even get out of bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is. That's a really good, like optimistic point from this, where it is like, okay, they have an outlet, and when you try different things, it's like you just need to find your outlet, you know.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Like I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to just take paint and throw it up on my garage walls. Like I'm just like I wanna finger paint my garage walls and go crazy and blah, blah, blah. And everyone's like, no, we don't do that. And I'm like why, why can't we not do that? Like why, like I know I'm not an artist, I'm not a painter, but I feel like it would just feel really, really good to just like create paint all over the place and just create. And then they're like well, maybe you don't do it with your hands, that gets messy. And I'm like you know what? Maybe I won't tell anybody next time that I have this idea and I'll just fucking do it because none of y'all are gonna get it ever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Your boyfriend just shows up in half the garage just like just splatter painted.
Speaker 1:I never even brought the idea up to him yet because I know that he would just be like Kelly. No, no. But I'm just like the walls are just spackled Like why not put cool things on them that make no sense, resale value for one. But I mean I could have the garage painted. You know it's not gonna, I guess an all fairness. That is true I could paint it, paint it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like to create, I have so many hobbies and so many things. But lately it's like I have to let go of that perfectionism, like okay, if I'm not making a van go, why even try? Oh, that's kind of where I think, where I'm like this is kind of garbage. But a friend of mine told me she was like you don't need to make money off of all your hobbies. I think I've saw that on social media too, where it's like so you can have these passions and things that you do, but you don't need to make money, you don't need to be good.
Speaker 2:And that's where I think a lot of just creativity is stifled, because we're expected to be like maestros by the time we're like seven and if you're not, it's like well, give it up. It's like okay. But if you enjoy it or if it adds value to your life, do it. It's just. It's sad when it's people like crap on you If you're not good or like even van go, which it's just so fun, well, not funny, but he was amazing, like his art is amazing. I think I don't know, I'm not an art critic, but nobody recognized that in his lifetime, Wouldn't you think?
Speaker 2:somebody over. So how long was he painting? Like seven years, Don't you think? Somebody 900 paintings, 1,100 sketches.
Speaker 1:One person bought one person, one singular person, and in Doctor who it was the doctor.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, have you ever heard that experiment or that story where that famous violinist played in the New York subway?
Speaker 1:Uh no, I don't believe so.
Speaker 2:So this is. It's like if art isn't in a museum, isn't in, you know, a concert hall, will you recognize it? That's the whole like thing behind this. So there's this famous violinist I don't, I think it was a violinist played in New York. Tickets were selling for hundreds of dollars a seat, amazing violinist. So they took this violinist and had him play in the New York subway and, like he played a lot of the songs he played the night prior for the seats that cost hundreds of dollars and they watched like who stopped? And like not many people stopped. Mostly kids stopped to listen. He only made like $50. He was there for hours and it's just, it's like.
Speaker 2:So there's this amazing musician who, like the night before, all these people were amazed, you know, like they're paying hundreds of dollars to see him, but you move venues and people don't recognize the artistry, even though it's like he was playing on the same violin, the violin that costs like tens of thousands of dollars. You know he played the same stuff. Yeah, maybe the acoustics aren't the greatest. Yeah, it just kind of makes you think that like, for example, van Gogh, until somebody said, oh, this art is good, like nobody else listened and it's. It's kind of crazy, just that we don't recognize that, or even just, you know, behind the art or behind the whatever it's like, some people have such passion for these things that it's that comes through, and I don't know, it's just it's.
Speaker 2:It's weird to think about that, unless it's behind glass and you know everybody says it's amazing. That it's, you know, not not amazing. I don't know, it's just weird.
Speaker 1:It's behind glass. It's the Mona Lisa.
Speaker 2:It's amazing, it's so good, yeah, well, I look at my art and I'm like I freaking love my art, like not the stuff I've done, but the stuff I've purchased. And yeah, it's like yeah, none of this might hang in the Louvre, but I freaking love it. Like.
Speaker 2:I love to see it every day. You know, I buy multiple pieces from artists because I love their stuff, but it's like nobody's saying, oh, this is it, this is the next, you know, monet, or whatever. So it's like I don't know. That that part kind of sucks. I went off on a tangent there.
Speaker 1:It's the coffee we love. A good tangent. We'd love a good coffee.
Speaker 2:Tangent cute triangle. Tangent line Math.
Speaker 1:Math sin sign cosine fuck math. So would you, should we get into our book corner?
Speaker 2:So remember how we said we'd do chapter two and three. Well, we're doing chapter two because depression and mental illness are a real thing, and right now we're using it as an excuse to only discuss chapter two, because we both only got to chapter two.
Speaker 1:So and honestly, chapter three is pretty heavy. Like, just looking at it it was like, ok, this is going to have to be its own thing, yeah, like it talks about family trauma. Yeah, Family trauma OK, when a family trauma is in the headline. Like you, just closed the book.
Speaker 2:And that's how it becomes generational family trauma.
Speaker 1:That is it. That is it so, Kelly, what?
Speaker 2:did you think of chapter two? And once again, this is how to Do the Work by Dr Nicole Lapera. I highly recommend getting yourself a copy. Following her on. I follow her on Instagram, but anyway, what did you think of chapter?
Speaker 1:two and following along with us as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, and have larger conversations about it.
Speaker 1:So, first of all, I thought this chapter was interesting because she spent the whole chapter telling, kind of like a giving an example, through this woman, jessica, and some things that I put in here were. So all this is about Jessica's behavior. All this is about alcohol. I have things highlighted in this book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, where are you going?
Speaker 1:None of this is connected. Right now I have my notes and my notes aren't making sense, oh my gravy. So what I thought was the most interesting about the book is that you, you're not your thoughts, which is one of the things. That is it's one of the headers there but our thoughts, essentially? I just I just read one of the headers to get me back to where I needed to be.
Speaker 1:Ok, essentially, like we have all these thoughts that go through our heads that we take and we like take and put them on ourselves, right, and we're like, oh, I am this because I'm thinking this, but that's not necessarily the truth. Like we can control our thoughts. We can, what was it? We live in a state in which you talked about how we live, in states of consciousness and subconsciousness, and we're usually in the subconscious state, like, more than 70 percent of the time, and that's when our thoughts are just kind of on autopilot and that's when we need to work on being more mindful and setting our intention with our thinking. Yeah, so I learned that about it. You are not your thoughts, and I found that interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I thought the same thing, where one thing I know she said was just like, or one of the practices was like, come back to who you are and not like do things, like do things with purpose, so you do kind of force yourself back into the present and not be just on autopilot. I thought that was really interesting. She says, like when you're doing dishes, feel the slipperiness of the soap or you know that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah and it's.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because after I read this I was cross stitching because I'm cool, like that, like whatever, and basically, of course, I'm a cool grandma, but I was cross stitching and I'm like I do this on autopilot, like it's just, it's so much where it's like and that's where when you learn new things it makes sense, because it's like, oh, I have to pay attention and I have to. It's so hard to learn and it's like I don't want to. I just want to be good at this. Like, I just want to go into that autopilot. Have you ever seen the movie with Adam Sandler with the remote? Is it called like click or click?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what this makes me think of, where it's like just fast forwarding your life and it's like crap, like how much of my life am I missing, you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I had a therapist once and we were working on, we were doing a CT therapy, so we were doing act and one of the things in there she was trying to teach me was mindfulness. So I used to keep this rock in my pocket and when I needed to like remind myself like that I was in the present, I just put my finger at my hand in my pocket and like rub, like rub the rock and just be like you know, same thing with the dishes, like it's smooth on this side, like there's a ripple on this side, that kind of thing, just kind of like be in the moment, so like calm everything else down, like all the alarm, the alarm is going off in my head and stuff. Mindfulness is real, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny, I had a therapist and we picked out a rock together. I'm like I got a rock too. Like maybe that's a therapist thing. You got a rock too. I don't know where the rock is. They love to hint at the rocks. Yeah, maybe that's like a thing, maybe that's like a.
Speaker 1:I wrote mindfulness rock on mine with chalk paint because I'm extra. Oh my gosh, yeah, and it came with me. Here's my friend At least I didn't name it and write Frank on the rock Like fucking Frank, here's my rock. I'm rubbing Frank again. I'm rubbing Frank in my pants again.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh dang, Like you mean that Exactly. You went to a weird place. I would name a rock. I'd be like this is Peggy Peggy's my mindfulness rock.
Speaker 1:I'm like I didn't fucking name the rock Peggy. Peggy, meet Peggy. This is Margaret Peggy for short. What, Yo, you did not know that.
Speaker 2:No, nobody named Margaret has Peggy. There's no P in.
Speaker 1:Margaret, I'll give you a chance. I'll give you a chance to Google this. You can go ahead. You can Google on podcast time. Fine, you know what I am. That's like Peggy is a short, is a version.
Speaker 2:That's dumb. It is. It is dumb. It makes no sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's Margaret, and then it's Peggy. Peggy nickname for Margaret. Yeah, there it is.
Speaker 2:How do you feel that's? Oh, that's kind of dumb. Here's Google. Why is Peggy a nickname for Margaret? Over there is Maggie morphed into Maggie and Meg because accents changing continued to transform into Peggy and Peg, based simply on a trend of creating nicknames that rhyme. It's the same reason. We have Bill from William, so because we suck at speaking. We somehow got Peggy from Margaret, that's from Yahoo Answers.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, what are your sources, girl? We'll put my sources in the show notes. Okay, because I'm like I had a lot of them today and I realized as I got started that I didn't read off the sources. But those are important, so I'll put them in the notes of the show.
Speaker 2:They are Back to the book Peggy, so I thought one thing that was interesting and I've heard this before is our body wants to stay in what was it homeostasis? Is that what that's called? Or just basically just stay as is? Yeah, that's homeostasis.
Speaker 1:Like, even though we're anxious, we're depressed, whatever.
Speaker 2:We know that anxiety, Like yeah, it sucks, but we know it and we can kind of sort of handle it when, if we change our bodies, like what is happening, this is out of our comfort zone, I don't like this, no, thank you. And so we have to push ourselves to kind of break out of that so we can say, no, yes, this is scary, yes, this is out of our comfort zone, but we're trying to get to a better place where this anxiety and depression aren't our homeostasis, where it's like no, I want to be better and I feel like that's something I keep running into like a wall there, because I'm just like it's so comfortable and especially when?
Speaker 1:So then you have the homeostatic impulse response.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I do, I'm a statistic, you know, she's a statistic, she's a statistic.
Speaker 1:What are we going to do?
Speaker 2:Oh my, God, what is it? No, you're not from Long Island. Yeah, I'm from Long Island, long Island.
Speaker 1:I'm from Long Island. I like coffee, orange juice.
Speaker 2:Ew, I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's go. I said I like coffee and orange juice, yeah, together. No, it's like you say, like the words that have the accents like water, coffee.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that. So you were just saying weird things to me.
Speaker 1:That's like me saying oh, what else is new, what else is new, what else is new?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess that's fair. But like, did you know, bag tag, bagel, bagel. I always forget how to say it. Now, but the A's.
Speaker 1:You had to say bagel, like the thing with the bread and the hole.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bagel, yeah, bagel. I can't say it too many times because otherwise I forget how to say it, and I'll just repeat the way you said it.
Speaker 1:Which is good because I'm saying it the right way no, no, no, Like.
Speaker 2:how do you say bag?
Speaker 1:bag Bag bag. No, I'm not from what's coming Bag no bag.
Speaker 2:I don't know how I say things now Flag.
Speaker 1:I no longer know who I am.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my identity is linked in what you want me to be.
Speaker 1:Anyway, your homeostatic impulse is regulating your psychological functions.
Speaker 2:I highlighted something. So when it says fixating on negative thoughts, a study show, we do 70% of the time. How upsetting is that. Oh yeah, 70% of the time, we're thinking negative thoughts, which is okay yeah, I totally see that but how upsetting that we're constantly in this negative state of mind that our mind was wired to go negative.
Speaker 1:It's wired, it's insane, it makes it's. I don't know why I wish, I wish I could do more. I can do more research.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's literally a source cited, so you can do more research there's literally.
Speaker 1:I could read this source and learn more. Yeah, but that's not happening.
Speaker 2:Let's be real. We're barely up to read this book.
Speaker 1:What did you think about because I thought this was funny when you were reading, if you were reading this part how to train these behaviors, how to become more mindful when they mentioned moving your body and challenging your body, and how one of the things to do would be yoga.
Speaker 2:I know I was like reading the story about the woman who, like, started doing yoga and then she became, like a yoga teacher. I'm like, should I become a yoga teacher?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I read that. I was like should I become a?
Speaker 2:Pilates teacher. Just go into these things just because we're like we're. Mental health is garbage and this book mentioned becoming a teacher in this way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just like said, my body would help my trauma.
Speaker 2:Well, at least you do it. I have done yoga like twice in the past decade and I had a panic attack during it, so I don't think a teacher, being a teacher, is necessarily in my immediate future.
Speaker 1:But I maybe, maybe a class. Maybe just start with the class first.
Speaker 2:Maybe in sitting in the back, like sitting at the back of the class or not sitting.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, so that way you can actually see the flow that they're doing. Otherwise, I always, I always. I'm just like I get messed up when I'm. When I go into like a flow class of yoga, everybody seems like they know what's going on and I don't know, Like I can't flow at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, I, when I go to a yoga class, I I don't even know what I do because most of the time I'm just like I hope nobody else is watching me. Do you ever see those videos for like puppy yoga or goat yoga, when all the puppies are like asleep on one person and the person can't move?
Speaker 1:That is my ideal yoga. I was going to say that's your yoga, the yoga that gets interrupted, so you don't have to move up. There's a goat on my mat, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:I can't do downward facing dog.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or like there's a puppy in my arms and he's asleep so I can't move, like that would be my everyday yoga. But yeah, whatever, yeah.
Speaker 1:So like. So the reason why they brought yoga up and as a practice is because I'm going to read this from the book when we develop our attention muscle, a process called neuroplasticity takes place. Neuroplasticity is a concept introduced in the last 50 years, when researchers discovered that our brains remain structurally and psychologically changeable throughout life, despite previous beliefs that change ended in our 20s. The brain is remarkably able to reorganize itself and grow new connections between neurons. Research shows us that practices like yoga and meditation help us refocus our attention, and that's our attention muscle, as they call it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this new generation, I think they said their attention spans are so short because you know TikTok, all these like short videos where they give you that boost of chemical in your brain and you're like cool next, cool next and yeah, it's happened to my attention span too, oh yeah, I mean my 30s.
Speaker 1:I don't know how it's gotten, and I don't even do TikTok, but it's still gotten worse. It's just the way that all of our content wants us to consume it.
Speaker 2:They want to keep. It's like gambling. They want to keep you entertained because the longer they have your attention, you know, the more ads they can show, or whatever. So it's like, yeah, we have to keep your attention. How do we keep your attention? By, like, giving you a dopamine hitter, serotonin hitter, whatever. It is like every you know, five, 10 seconds.
Speaker 1:There's got to be a formula for it.
Speaker 2:There's probably by now.
Speaker 1:Go to a Like the gamification formula that I mean, that's out in the open.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but like, go to a casino and see how often you need to win. That was interesting. In a psych class there is, like you know, they've figured out how often you need to win in order to keep you playing.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when I went to Vegas my first time ever out there, we went with Sean's cousin and she just put like $50 into the slot machine thing and like she won some but she ended up losing $50. Like she didn't actually win money. It's like she lost a money and then we'll make a little back and then lost a ton. So it's like it's just interesting, because even when you win, you lose, so it's like nobody makes money at these things and we're all just getting her. Our attention span is just getting lower.
Speaker 1:It's just, I don't know not the greatest Anything else we have on this chapter. I mean, they did some experiments with the dudes, yeah, which was cool.
Speaker 2:That was cool. So homework at the end, the daily thing you should do, where you take a minute or two and bring yourself back to yeah.
Speaker 1:Build the consciousness, consciousness building. There's a lot of consciousness building on how to get that done, how to get that done. You know how to get that done.
Speaker 2:You know how to be conscious right.
Speaker 1:I started this one, so I guess this was my favorite quote of the chapter. You get it Okay, I guess. I mean I started. I started with the tools and we do not become consciously aware of the disconnection between our authentic selves and our thoughts. We give our thoughts too much control in our daily lives and that's a yeah, that's a heavy quote for me. I like to be authentic and my thoughts they do take away from that. I can definitely resonate with that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I highlighted that in my book as well. It is interesting.
Speaker 1:Oh, just a star, A nice star. Was it your favorite quote too?
Speaker 2:I wouldn't go that far no, I just I have a highlighter because I'd like to be organized and professional in my book.
Speaker 1:Oh, I use a pen. I use a colored pen. Oh, you use a garbage pen. Okay, oh, oh, oh, I use a garbage pen. No, it's purple and it's got a feather, you already?
Speaker 2:know about that. Oh, so we're a child pen. Okay, cool, I'm not being professional, but whatever. Anyway it's.
Speaker 1:Legos, Legos, Legos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I might have Legos in my centerpieces at my wedding. I really want to, but that's neither here nor there. Anyway, yeah, I thought the same thing, where it's like your thoughts are who you are kind of, and I started reading into chapter three a little bit because I'm an overachiever or just an achiever, because we were supposed to read all of chapter three, so actually I'm a drama.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if this was in chapter three or chapter two, but it's interesting that, like our thoughts, yeah, because this was like childhood trauma and bringing up, okay, we had to be a certain person to survive our childhood, even if it was like a great childhood, if we had, like parents that argued, you know, we'd want to be a quieter child who, like kept to herself to make it less stressful for our parents or whatever it is. And those behaviors became thoughts in our head that like, okay, I need to be quiet to bring value or to like not bring stress into the group or the relationship or whatever. And it's really interesting how, as children, we became ourselves or like we're molded into this version of ourselves, and now, as adults, we kind of have to tease apart, okay, what part is us adapting to, like our environment and what part is actually us? And that's kind of crazy, because I think back to my childhood and I'm like, yeah, it's a great childhood. My parents, I think, did great, you know, don't you know I'm turned out pretty great, you know.
Speaker 1:But anyway.
Speaker 2:I'm a freaking rock star, so no, but it's just like but there's still stuff like no person's perfect and my parents did the best they could, but it's still like, okay, they're not going to be perfect. And so one part of me is like one thing humor for me is you know how I handle things. And it's like is that part of me, or is that just a defense mechanism?
Speaker 1:No, it's totally a part of you and it has to stay there forever because it is hilarious.
Speaker 2:So I have to be mentally and well forever. Okay, thank you, kelly, I'll tell my therapist that You're.
Speaker 1:Welcome my therapist. I need you, just as you are, and to stop while she's ahead.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's cool, my therapist will sign a lease on a mansion because she'll be like oh, so you're not changing. Okay, we're going to be here a long while, like let me, let me take out this lease.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me take out this mortgage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm about to be a millionaire on the back of your, your mental illness, but no, but that gets into chapter three. But it's just it's. Our thoughts are how we came to be in teasing that apart as hard.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so next week we'll be doing chapter three then, and next week I think we should only do chapter three, because it's like 20 pages long.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's a lot of trauma chapter yeah, trauma talk is pretty hard. Yeah, I mean that is but so that's it.
Speaker 1:We did another one, another one and another one, another one in the books. Thank you everyone for listening. We appreciate you. Please subscribe and rate wherever you listen. That would be much appreciated even more, and we'll talk to you next time on the I'm not okay K podcast. Bye, toodles, toodles.